Audi RS6 Avant in America

Why wagons don’t sell in America

Jason Cammisa and Derek Tamm-Scott sit down and discuss the topic of station wagons in America. Spoiler alert: they both own them. The real shocker is that Derek owns an Audi 200 wagon & Mercedes E450 4matic, while Jason only has a BMW E30 Touring.

I won’t spoil the rest of the show, but there is a clip of Derek’s Audi wagon accelerating and it sounds very good.

The longroof question is one that I confront every time I am browsing vehicles on the Internet. I would really love to have something that would hold all six of us and have space for the larger than normal amount of groceries. The kids eat a lot. An E-Class wagon is $70,000 and the Buick Regal Tourx only has five seats. The Subaru Ascent basically looks like a taller version of the Outback wagon. Plus it’s turbo-charged, which means you’re a software map away from more fun. Who needs a warranty? I do. I definitely do.

Why do you think station wagons don’t do well in the States? Is it because those of us approaching our forties grew-up in longroofs and minivans? After growing up in SUVs, will our kids gravitate to wagons? I hope so.

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25 responses to “Why wagons don’t sell in America”

  1. nanoop Avatar

    I’m afraid they don’t sell anywhere anymore. In the US they are maybe displaced by bigger vehicles (SUVs and trucks), and shorter vehicles in Europe (CUVs), but overall, they are the dandy horses of the late 19ths century: a good idea once, but replaced by more practical inventions.
    There is a community keeping penny-farthings alive, and I would love to have a malaise era wagon as a weekend cruiser.

  2. Tomsk Avatar
    Tomsk

    I believe there are multiple parties responsible for the slow death of wagons in America:
    – Marketers for pushing SUVs and crossovers as the more rugged, capable and versatile alternatives (even though most buyers of those vehicles never do things a car-based wagon can’t anyway)
    – Product planners for almost always limiting U.S. wagon buyers to one engine choice, one transmission choice, and one driveline choice (usually AWD, in which those of us in the Sunbelt have zero interest) when they could just as easily certify the other drivetrain combinations found in the sedans and hatchbacks on which the wagons are based
    – Lawmakers for cutting SUVs and crossovers a significant break on CAFE

    1. I_Borgward Avatar
      I_Borgward

      I concur. What slays me is how many crossovers are based on sedan underpinnings, and really just tall station wagons by another name. Lower them a bit and remove the rugged side cladding and what do you have?

      1. Sjalabais Avatar
        Sjalabais

        There’s one big oops though, in that the nominal ground clearance of today’s SUVs may be double that of 1980s/1990s wagons, but it’s incredibly rare this is used. On the other hand, most modern wagons sit significantly lower than those older wagons, for two reasons: A misguided ambition to catch good Nürburgring numbers even in the most mundane of vehicles, and fuel efficiency standards. So those cars sit too low for farm and gravel roads. That means the middle ground is abandoned, except for ruggedized wagons who already concede that the “SUV-style” is a selling point.

    2. Maymar Avatar
      Maymar

      I think what tweaks me the most is something like how Audi can justify bringing over an A4 on stilts, and a performance Q5 (showing there’s a market for something practical and fun), but can’t make a regular A4 Avant (which I would bet as being about as fun to drive as the SQ5, while riding better). I suppose the goal is to get buyers to spend $60k instead of $50k.

      Then again, while I can’t afford it, I could otherwise walk out today and buy a Mercedes C43 (AMG but not really AMG) wagon, so I can’t completely complain.

  3. I_Borgward Avatar
    I_Borgward

    Also: 30 minutes of my life to watch over-privileged metrobros dribble on about hideously over-priced Krautwagens?

    You’re kidding, right?

    1. Sjalabais Avatar
      Sjalabais

      Haha, I watched the first 27 seconds to reach the same conclusion. Ouch.

      On a related note, a couple of days ago I rewatched an 11 year old Top Gear clip and the YouTube-algorithms keep asking “do you want more bananas?”. It’s still entertaining, but, boy, how antiquated it is. They do manage to avoid the privileged hovering snout effects of many ‘tube channels though.

    2. Sjalabais Avatar
      Sjalabais

      Haha, I watched the first 27 seconds to reach the same conclusion. Ouch.

      On a related note, a couple of days ago I rewatched an 11 year old Top Gear clip and the YouTube-algorithms keep asking “do you want more bananas?”. It’s still entertaining, but, boy, how antiquated it is. They do manage to avoid the privileged hovering snout effects of many ‘tube channels though.

  4. Turbobrick Avatar
    Turbobrick

    It’s all about ingress and egress. It simply is easier to get in and out of a SUV because they sit higher and have taller doors.

    1. outback_ute Avatar
      outback_ute

      Also, gives you more space inside for the footprint of the vehicle, you aren’t going to scrape it on things and 99 percent of people don’t drive them hard enough for the CoG to make a difference (the others don’t 99 percent of the time)

      1. Fuhrman16 Avatar
        Fuhrman16

        “More space on the inside for the footprint of the vehicle” I wouldn’t completely agree on that one. The Arcadia and Equinox my mother has owned both had rather poorly thought out and cramped interiors.

        1. outback_ute Avatar
          outback_ute

          Now imagine them with a 4″ lower roofline. The seat has to be lower, so further back – you’re losing legroom and/or trunk space.

    2. Tiberiuswise Avatar

      100% right. Easier to get yourself in and out of, easier to load groceries in the back without bending over.

      I’ve been driving a 2020 Explorer for two months now. It handles better than I ever imagined and averages a hair above the 27 MPG on the Monroney. Sure a lower right height would improve both of these atributes, but I find it to be a good balance.

  5. ptschett Avatar
    ptschett

    If wagons are that dead, how is that they have the 4 slots between the perennial best-seller pickups and the Camvicrollacord contingent?
    (What is on life-support is long-low-wide, which parts of the market were trying to get away from almost as soon as it was imposed on the ~’58’s.)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6cc6ae74b21e57b6ed70b75fdbe959ca5cacf103cf28e31638a1dfc35e2f10e6.png

  6. ptschett Avatar
    ptschett

    If wagons are that dead, how is it that they have the 4 slots between the perennial best-seller pickups and the Camcivrollacord contingent?
    (What is on the decline is long-low-wide, though still healthy enough in the regular cars that follow that formula for fuel economy or outright performance.)
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6cc6ae74b21e57b6ed70b75fdbe959ca5cacf103cf28e31638a1dfc35e2f10e6.png

    1. nanoop Avatar

      When the CR-V and the RAV4 are wagons, how would a CUV look like: even taller?
      (I will leave out my made-up rule that the defining feature of a wagon is its sedan version.)

      1. ptschett Avatar
        ptschett

        The future is where the sedan is like the Ford Five Hundred/Taurus and the wagon is like the Ford Freestyle/Taurus X/Explorer. The other automakers just haven’t quite yet gotten the memo that the Earl/Mitchell/Exner et al era is over (except perhaps Subaru.)

      2. ptschett Avatar
        ptschett

        The future is where the sedan is like the Ford Five Hundred/Taurus and the wagon is like the Ford Freestyle/Taurus X/Explorer. The other automakers just haven’t quite yet gotten the memo that the Earl/Mitchell/Exner et al era is over (except perhaps Subaru.)

      3. ptschett Avatar
        ptschett

        The future is where the sedan is like the Ford Five Hundred/Taurus and the wagon is like the Ford Freestyle/Taurus X/Explorer. The other automakers just haven’t quite yet gotten the memo that the Earl/Mitchell/Exner et al era is over (except perhaps Subaru.)

      4. ptschett Avatar
        ptschett

        The future is where the sedan is like the Ford Five Hundred/Taurus and the wagon is like the Ford Freestyle/Taurus X/Explorer. The other automakers just haven’t quite yet gotten the memo that the Earl/Mitchell/Exner et al era is over (except perhaps Subaru.)

        1. nanoop Avatar

          I intentionally hopped over the Fords, because we don’t have those models here so the names didn’t tell me anything.. Looking at wikipedia I’ll have to alter my definitions, since I don’t distinguish “class” (SUV) and “body style” (4-door wagon): In my world, a SUV is not a wagon, so there is culprit. Look, I’ve learned something!

          1. ptschett Avatar
            ptschett

            I was being a bit silly on my reply (it was late & I was drinking.) But yes, my admittedly weird worldview is that CUV/SUV’s can be considered to be a wagon, and that CUVs especially are an evolution of non-high-performance wagons back to an earlier more-upright kind of packaging, from before the dictates of style & fuel economy forced sedans & coupes to be what they now are. (For the scenario where for a longroof to be a wagon it has to have a sedan version, the CUV’s sedan counterparts that make them a wagon just weren’t able to exist in our regulatory universe, with the exception maybe of those Fords I cited.)

          2. outback_ute Avatar
            outback_ute

            I agree that cars are reverting back to before the whole longer/lower/wider thing took off, for better packaging. You might also compare most B & C segment cars in the last 20 years to those older – much taller rooflines in general.

          3. Turbobrick Avatar
            Turbobrick

            Exactly. Turns out the whole sleek and low trend that started in the late 50’s was just a fad, we’re going back to the way things were in the 30s and 40s. Car-design wise, that is.

          4. Turbobrick Avatar
            Turbobrick

            Exactly. Turns out the whole sleek and low trend that started in the late 50’s was just a fad, we’re going back to the way things were in the 30s and 40s. Car-design wise, that is.