Toyota’s new GA-B platform seems exclusively designed for hybrid vehicles

The whole world right now is losing its mind over Electric Vehicles – EVs, as the abbreviators call them. Keyboard experts go on and on about range and recharge time at various voltages, battery capacity, system efficiency, and a whole of other stuff that no one was really teaching in Electrical Engineering classes two decades ago. It’s an interesting time to be alive. Now, if they could just start talking about the charging/electrical global infrastructure, things could actually progress.

Meanwhile, the company that principally brought the whole idea of electrified vehicles to market is not saying much about EVs. Toyota seems to be quietly engineering quality vehicles and selling them by the dozens hundreds of thousands. Thousands, as in almost 50,000 RAV4s sold just in the month of August, just in the U.S. To put it into perspective, that’s more RAV4s sold last month than all vehicles for Mazda and Audi combined for the same time period.

The new RAV4, like the many of Toyota’s current products, are based on one of the versions of the TNGA (Toyota New Global Architecture) platforms. From personal perspective, each of the TNGA-based vehicles I drove seemed superior to the older models. The new Lexus UX 250h, based on the GA-C platform, that I am currently driving maybe the best non-performance hybrid I ever drove – more on that later. GA-K is a basis for the Camry, Avalon, RAV4, Highlander, and the like.

Now, Toyota introduced a new small car GA-B platform. It is a replacement for the B platform which was the basis for vehicles such as Yaris and Prius C. Toyota has shown several pictures of the platform. Aside from its scalability and suspension setup, nothing was mentioned regarding any kind of powertrains. But the pictures speak louder than than the press release text. A closer look at the above picture shows a box behind the front seat, possibly under the rear seat. Let’s take a closer look:

That, right there, is clearly a battery pack. It even has a cooling duct going under it. That blue area around it, and the blue areas visible in other pictures, those are the chassis hard points. Those are non-scaleable, non-adjustable, no-changeable chassis hard points. And this battery is surrounded by it.

But a battery this size, roughly no more than 24-inches wide, 16-inches deep, and 5-inches tall cannot possibly hold enough energy to work a purely electric vehicle. It has to be a hybrid battery. Not only that, most of the other fixed area is in the front of the vehicle, where typically a conventional engine would be mounted. This means that it is designed for a conventional engine and nothing else. Further, just behind that battery is typical fuel pump cover that goes the fuel tank.

This configuration leads to believe that probably all of Toyota’s new small vehicles will have some kind of a hybrid powertrain. This design is pretty much forcing that. The space between the rear wheels, call it spare tire wheel well or the area under the trunk, clearly shown as open in this image, could hold an additional battery, such as that of a plug-in hybrid version. The narrow long blue area running the length the chassis is likely where the high voltage cables will go.

Providing a strictly hybrid small vehicles is a brilliant idea at this time. While all the automakers are competing for EV fame, the fact is that the world simply is not ready for hundreds of thousands new electric vehicles. There is not enough charging areas around, really anywhere in the world, and home charging is mostly limited to those with personal garages, which pretty much excludes most of Europe. Then there is the question if our electrical infrastructure, the electrical grid, can actually support 200,000 to 400,000 brand new additional vehicles being plugged into it annually.

The hybrid, be it plug-in or conventional, is therefore a great compromise. It appeases those screaming about pollution while still using the existing gasoline/oil infrastructure, which makes living with an economical, easier. It’s a win-win. The EVs are coming, we’re just not ready for them. Enjoy your hybrid.

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32 responses to “Toyota’s new GA-B platform seems exclusively designed for hybrid vehicles”

  1. Eric Rucker Avatar

    Worth noting that just because they show the battery there doesn’t mean that they couldn’t make a non-hybrid version (especially for less well-off markets).

    Also, it’s possible that they’ll do something with eTNGA to make an eGA-B that’s largely the same hard points, but with changes to the floor structure to handle a large battery. (IIRC this is the strategy that Fiat is following for the next-gen 500 and 500e – they’ll be the same car on “different” platforms.)

  2. outback_ute Avatar
    outback_ute

    Looks like the blue is a different grade of steel – runs on both sides plus front structure, crossmember behind dash etc. At this point a manufacturer would be silly not to design vehicles with provision for batteries IMO. I’d be going for the Honda system of fuel tank under front seat, leaving the back seat area free for batteries.

    1. Scoutdude Avatar
      Scoutdude

      I’m not so sure that the blue is necessarily a different type of steel, I think it is noting the main structural support of the vehicle, and I believe it is also likely that those are parts that will be shared across all applications of this platform.

      1. outback_ute Avatar
        outback_ute

        I could believe that too – there would be more than 2 grades of steel in play!

        1. Scoutdude Avatar
          Scoutdude

          But being the main structure it could likely be the highest strength steel in the vehicle.

  3. Rover 1 Avatar
    Rover 1

    This is the sort of article I like to read. Giving a well informed explanation of current background news, in other words, proper journalism. Well done Mr Kaluski!

  4. Eric Rucker Avatar

    Worth noting that just because they show the battery there doesn’t mean that they couldn’t make a non-hybrid version (especially for less well-off markets).

    Also, it’s possible that they’ll do something with eTNGA to make an eGA-B that’s largely the same hard points, but with changes to the floor structure to handle a large battery. (IIRC this is the strategy that Fiat is following for the next-gen 500 and 500e – they’ll be the same car on “different” platforms.)

  5. Scoutdude Avatar
    Scoutdude

    I agree that Hybrids are far from over and that we will see more and more vehicles have at least a Hybrid option. Over at Ford for 2020 they have Explorer, Aviator, Escape and Corsair Hybrids of the standard and plug in version. The F150 and Mustang are also on the way with a plug in version of the F-150 too. The Expedition and Navigator should follow soon after as should the Transit.

    Back in Feb I picked up a C-Max Energi (plug-in hybrid) for the wife replacing her C-Max (standard hybrid). At our electric and gas prices when it runs on the plug it costs about half it does with gas and we do have days where it doesn’t use any gas at all. Yet I took it on a near 400mi trip this last weekend w/o any stops for energy, electric or liquid. Yeah on those trips it gets a little worse mpg than the standard version but overall we are using less fuel and spending less money on driving.

    The other thing about EVs and the supposed need for outside charging locations that no one discusses is cost. At the public chargers that are around here the cost of charging is 4x that I pay at home. So it goes from being much cheaper to run on the plug than gas to much more expensive. So plug in Hybrid makes a lot of sense and dollars.

  6. Sjalabais Avatar
    Sjalabais

    A neighbour’s friend had trouble taking his EV to Denmark. He couldn’t figure out a quick charger to work, and when he asked other people using them if he could charge on their accounts and pay them back in cash, the system replied only one car could be charged per account simultaneously. So he arrived at his hotel with 2km range left and had to stay two days trickle-charging, instead of just spending the planned night.

    To me, a tale of how to not be prepared enough. I see EVs with German and Netherland’s license plates on vacation here regularly, so it should work. But it is the old issue with compatibility and standards in a new industry. Tesla and VW shouldn’t need each their own charging network in the US. The Renault Zoe has poor second hand value because it doesn’t support ChaDeMo.

    Things like that need not happen if commercial interests can figure out how they can work together.

    1. Scoutdude Avatar
      Scoutdude

      Well the Society of Automotive Engineers did decide on a standard SAE J1772 for level 1 and level 2 and CCS which includes the J1772 plus an extra pair of (large) conductors. The problem is that Tesla went it on their own and some others have gone with CHaDeMo.

      But that is only half of the problem, the other half is the fact that there are so many different purveyors that all have their own membership fees, cars and billing. You can charge as a guest by calling a 1-800 number but it is not an easy thing plus at least at the ones I’ve looked into there is a 20% premium. That is why California is trying to or has passed a law that is going to require a credit card reader that you just have to swipe to start charging.

      1. Sjalabais Avatar
        Sjalabais

        That is sensible regulation. I wasn’t even aware that CHaDeMo wasn’t part of the type1/type2 standard thing.

        One thing valid for me, with an old EV that charges slowly, is that the paid-by-minute-system leaves me with a quite high bill at fast chargers. It’s not nominally high, but the kW/km price is that of gasoline, rather than the 1/4 of that I pay at home. At work, I charge for free, but of 8 outlets, only 2 are Schuko/type1, compatible to my car.

        I’m not at all in doubt though that regulators and manufacturers will figure this out though. Teething problems!

      2. Sjalabais Avatar
        Sjalabais

        That is sensible regulation. I wasn’t even aware that CHaDeMo wasn’t part of the type1/type2 standard thing.

        One thing valid for me, with an old EV that charges slowly, is that the paid-by-minute-system leaves me with a quite high bill at fast chargers. It’s not nominally high, but the kW/km price is that of gasoline, rather than the 1/4 of that I pay at home. At work, I charge for free, but of 8 outlets, only 2 are Schuko/type1, compatible to my car.

        I’m not at all in doubt though that regulators and manufacturers will figure this out though. Teething problems!

        1. Scoutdude Avatar
          Scoutdude

          With the per minute chargers in the US how much you pay per kw/hr is going to vary significantly based not only on your vehicle’s max charge rate but what the state of charge when starting and how full you charge. At least with the level 2 you pay per kw/hr so you don’t pay extra because your car has a slow charger.

          1. Sjalabais Avatar
            Sjalabais

            Does a map displaying basic price data exist? Charging per kW makes sense, but there’s also a need to regulate occupancy.

          2. Scoutdude Avatar
            Scoutdude

            Unfortunately no map of prices. I do believe that they do charge an idle time fee at the Level 2 chargers around here, I know the Fast Charge (Level 3) charge a per minute idle if you stay plugged in more than 5 min after the charge is complete, and it is like $1 per minute.

  7. crank_case Avatar
    crank_case

    Euro 7 I believe makes it near impossible to meet emissions/fleet average targets without some kind of at least mild hybridization, so incorporating hybridization as standard seems to make sense in that respect.

    I reckon it’s typical Euro fudgery though, it looks good on paper, but in reality will kill off the smallest most frugal non-hybrid cars (like sub-fiesta sized) while giving SUVs a free pass because they use electrickery which is great in labs (even WLTP) but less so in the real world.

    1. Scoutdude Avatar
      Scoutdude

      The thing is that Hybrids actually shine in what is most people’s real world driving, the mixed around town stop and go. We are on our 5th Ford Hybrid and in our every day driving just under 40mpg has been the norm, except for the first generation Escape 4wd that was just under 30mpg.

      1. crank_case Avatar
        crank_case

        I get that, but you can drive the wheels off a smaller lighter car and still get better MPG assuming you’re talking US Gallons. My old Fiat Cinquecento with its 1980s engine would deliver 48MPG US even if I drove like my hair was on fire (so like an Italian basically). Newer small cars are heavier, but thanks to modern engines can deliver similar or better MPG in the real world, while being far cheaper new, requiring less materials and roadspace. Whole life CO2 is better than even EVs for the first 100k miles or so

        I get that you can’t always lug around a families stuff in one (though you’d be amazed how much useful space many have), but not everyone needs to either and it’s a shame the choice of such entirely rational, cheap, yet appealing cars is under threat. 🙁

        1. outback_ute Avatar
          outback_ute

          I think it’s getting to the point though that a small hybrid system with a tiny battery will be able to make a significant difference to an A or B segment car without adding a lot of weight or cost.

          For example the Fiat system where you remove the battery to take it inside to charge, which also removes the obstacle of needing an electrical supply where you park (street/apartment).

          1. crank_case Avatar
            crank_case

            It could, but some of these A segment cars have margins so tight, they’re being canned. I believe the VW UP! will go for example, and other makers are making similar noises. Kei cars are under threat in Japan too, right when they’ve never been more relevant.

        2. Scoutdude Avatar
          Scoutdude

          Yes those are US gallons I’m talking about. The thing to keep in mind is that those cars do have ICE only versions and the Hybrid is a significant improvement in the daily driving. Take the worst one we’ve had the 2008 Escape. The non hybrid 4wd was rated at 19/21/24 while the Hybrid was rated at 29/28/27. So for many people you got a 33% boost in daily MPG. That was their 1st gen system. Fast forward to today’s 3rd gen system as used in the 2019 Fusion, The non turbo 2.5 is rated at 21/25/31 the 1.5 turbo gets 23/27/34 while the Hybrid 2.0 gets a 43/42/41 rating a 55~70% boost in mixed driving. The tech certainly could be applied with similar results in smaller cars, however the larger the vehicle the more actual reduction in fuel consumption.

          It is unfortunate that simple small cars are going away, but a lot of that has to do with consumer demand, at least in the US.

          1. crank_case Avatar
            crank_case

            Diminishing results for smaller sub 1000kg cars, the extra weight and cost doesn’t really justify it. Remember, the entire reason the Prius exists isn’t so much Toyota wanting to save the planet as the small car market getting smaller in the US at the time. Some sort of mild hybrid would be as far as makes sense with current tech. i.e. drags itself along on its starter motor like the Suzuki Ignis.

  8. Zentropy Avatar
    Zentropy

    I think most vehicles should be hybrids. I love ICEs, but the hybrid technology is proven and has almost zero drawbacks. They make way more sense to me than pure EVs. As soon as someone makes a reasonably affordable, small, RWD, manual-transmission car or truck, I’ll be in line to pre-order.

    1. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Zero drawbacks? I wouldn’t call an extra 150kg and the cost it’d add to cars that start at 10,000 euro zero drawbacks. (For comparison, a Fiesta sized car averages about 17k here and a Focus/Golf about 25-30k). The modern car has grown to suit hybrids, not the other way around.

      I think full hybrids don’t really make a huge amount of sense in genuinely small cars, apart from maybe mild starter motor hybrids and even then, they don’t seem to add much over conventional start/stop.

      1. Scoutdude Avatar
        Scoutdude

        I think you are overstating the price of the hybrid option. For example the Fusion SE starts at $24,500 while the SE Hybrid is $28,000 or only a $3500 premium or $3150 euro. On the Explorer it is supposed to be similarly priced. So yeah there certainly is pressure on the smaller vehicles where the premium is a larger percentage of the total vehicle cost and the actual money saved on fuel doesn’t add up as quickly as it will on those larger vehicles.

        That is assuming that the Hybrid option doesn’t add any other value and in some cases you do get a good chunk of that back at resale time, not to mention that it does lower other costs as they typically have longer service intervals and the brakes last for a very very long time. The battery isn’t an issue either at least from most mfgs. The original Escape Hybrid was the darling of the NYC taxi fleet for a number of years and many regularly racked up 400k, 500k or more with the original battery, engine and transmission.

        1. crank_case Avatar
          crank_case

          3500 on a 10,000 euro car is massive, and it doesn’t really save fuel at all on such light cars. I think maybe unless you’ve experienced something like an Up!/i10/Twingo first hand you might not get how compact they are, or indeed an even smaller Kei car. Hybrids tend to be a bit dull to drive too, going via planetary CVTs rather than a snicky little manual. (I’m aware hybrid manuals exist like Honda IMA CR-Zs)

          It’s not simply my opinion though, it seems to be very much commercial reality. Small cars had low profit margins vs some jumped up pseudo SUV but were kept in the range because they lowered the fleet average, but EURO7 is so nuts, they now have no effect so the paper thin business case shrinks further and you can’t really absorb the extra costs.

          https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-motor-show/volkswagen-could-axe-europe

          1. Scoutdude Avatar
            Scoutdude

            The way I read your comment was that you thought the hybrid system added 10k euro to those 17-25k cars.

      2. Zentropy Avatar
        Zentropy

        First of all, I said “almost”, and secondly, I don’t think the weight penalty is a given. The 1.8L Corolla Hybrid LE is 105 lbs lighter than the non-hybrid 1.8L LE. The Euro tracks pretty evenly with the USD, and I don’t think you can buy a new car here for less than $15k, so I have no idea what a 10,000 Euro car would be. Hybridization adds $3k (or about 15%) to a $20k Corolla, but if hybrid drivetrains were standard across the board, these costs would likely be lower.
        Pure EV, on the other hand, doesn’t make much sense to me. The Tesla Model 3 AWD adds 300 lbs (and $16K USD) compared to a BMW 330i xDrive and doesn’t have nearly the range. I can see going to a hybrid, but getting away from the dependability (and near-instant refuelability) of the ICE entirely is not an option I’m prepared to embrace.

        1. crank_case Avatar
          crank_case

          10k(ish) cars
          Toyota Aygo/Citroen C1/Peugeot 107
          Skoda Citigo/Seat Mii/VW Up!
          Kia Picanto/Hyundai i10
          Dacia Sandero (actually a class bigger than the others on the list)
          Renault Twingo
          Fiat Panda

          This is 10-12k at Irish prices, they’d actually be cheaper in other parts of Europe.

          A Corolla is massive compared to these (and a 25k+ car here).

          I don’t think you really have a frame of reference when Corollas are entry level cars for most Americans. Stuff like that is way lardier.

          Yet at the same time, these small cars are surprisingly civilized and roomy enough for adults.

          It’s an entire class of thing that could go away.

          1. Zentropy Avatar
            Zentropy

            I think the cheapest U.S. option is technically the Chevy Spark (Daewoo Matiz), which is around $13.5k with discounts and 2300 lbs, so that would probably represent the benchmark lowest entry-level American car, and one of the smallest in dimensions. I wish we had more choice in the small-car segment, but people over here are convinced that bigger is always better.

          2. crank_case Avatar
            crank_case

            The Spark would be comparable alright, I forgot that even existed. It’s going that bigger is better way here too (while parking and roadspace shrinks), it’s not like these cars make up the bulk of new sales here either, but they did represent an entry point and were more fun than say a punishment beating spec VW Golf

      3. Richard Avatar
        Richard

        In the RAV4 AWD LE hybrid is only US$850 more than the standard petrol version .. and for that extra amount they also throw in climate control AC. As hybrid volumes increase they will get even cheaper. Toyota make 10 million cars per annum and the majority I suspect will be hybrid in the next 5 years. The chassis engineering in this article says it all.

        I realise your talking small cars … hybrid is now very cheap and even a Yaris hybrid has about a 48% reduction in fuel/CO2 in urban environments.