I enjoy the act of driving to get a cup of coffee. Bean water is quite appealing to me. But I’ve never driven to get coffee in something quite as rad as Dodge Daytona.
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What’s the real-clone ratio with these? Eg if you see a Cobra you’d first assume it was a clone.
I recall someone saying there were 500-and-some Daytonas made (the Daytona was based on the Charger 500, which is the only reason I remember this). Considering one could feasibly build a clone from three different model years (’68-’70) and Mopar muscle prices have skyrocketed, I would guess that many more than 500 clones have been made. That alone would suggest half of the ones you see are fake, even if all of the originals survived.
Keep in mind, though, that second generation Charger prices are pretty high to begin with, so it isn’t like a Cobra clone where you can start from scratch and create or buy a chassis of welded tubing. A mass-produced, complete, high, quality Cobra kit (not including engine, transmission, or wheels/tires) can be purchased for $20K. https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/mk4/complete-kit/ For a Daytona, that kind of money will buy you a mishmash of reproduction conversion parts. https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/69-daytona-conversion-kit.157138/ and then you still need to buy a donor Charger, fix all the rust and dents, refresh all the suspension, steering, interior, gas tank, brakes, electrical, and 50 years worth of other assorted rot,
If you spend $100K building a Cobra clone, you end up with a replica of a $1 million original. Spend the same building a Daytona clone, and you have a knockoff of a car worth a quarter of that. That’s not to say people don’t clone them (or partially clone them–I know someone who put a fiberglass nose on a Superbird so he could keep the original part stored away, safe from any parking lot mishaps), and people like the Beinrkes build their 71 cars because they can https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-t5WKkgMDk, but the economics of cloning a Daytona are harsher than building many other clones.
Kit cars and clones aren’t the same thing, but I see your point. From my perspective, creating a Daytona/Superbird from a Charger/Roadrunner is more akin to building a Shelby GT350/500 from a Mustang. You’re starting with a production vehicle, not from scratch. No one is going to (or should, at least) spend $100k building a Daytona clone, but someone might consider restoring their Charger to look like one just because they like the appearance, or think someone else will. The cloning might not bring the big bucks of an original Daytona (one sold a few years ago for $900k, which was admittedly unusual), but may add a few thousand (to the right buyer) on top of an already-appreciating Charger.
On the other hand, companies like Factory Five sell kits to build replicas. Their cars can potentially be better than the originals, but aren’t trying to fake anyone out. I’ve never met an owner of one of these “Cobras” who tried to pass it off as anything but a replica. They hold their value fairly well, but don’t appreciate like a classic car. You might have $60k in a finished Cobra replica, but it’s only going to be worth maybe $50k if you try to sell it in a few years.
Personally, I don’t understand the popularity of “clones”. Unless (1) the owner just likes to pretend they have something “special”, or (2) the cloning is an intentional deceit in attempt to gouge a buyer for more money, then to me it seems like a waste of effort. There’s no way I would ever take a handsome Charger and convert it to a Daytona, which I personally find pretty heinous. Similarly, I wouldn’t attempt to pass off my E28 535i as an M5, even if I could find the parts to make it appear legit. I might install the S38 from a wrecked M5 just for the fun of it, but certainly wouldn’t apply the M5 badges. Fake is fake, and I don’t value it.
Homages, on the other hand, are cool. They’re an honest, open nod to a particular aesthetic, and say something about the owner’s interests without attempting to mislead anyone. There’s room for creative expression because perceived authenticity isn’t the goal. Likewise, I think replicas can be a great way for people to experience a car they wouldn’t have any opportunity to enjoy otherwise. The six existing Shelby Daytona Coupes are basically stationary art, but I could drive the hell out of a FFR replica without worry.
I guess it gets to be splitting hairs after a while, but I think of a clone being something of a duplicate of an original, minus the provenance. So if someone exactly followed Shelby’s blueprints and made an exact double, it’s a clone. If they make parts for 100 clones and package them into 100 kits, the kits could also be assembled into clones (I would have said 100 clones, but we all know that some kit cars never get built).
But clones do have their purpose. David Spade’s Holy Grail car is likely to stay original forever. If someone wants to put air conditioning, or a Hellcrate, or a tube chassis into a Daytona, there’s no need to mess up an original. In those circumstances, a clone is the right tool for the job.
Not sure what you would call the car in the wind tunnel in the video above. NASCAR killed the wing cars before the 1971 cars came out.
I agree, it’s eventually splitting hairs, and I only offered my perspective. But a Hellcrated Daytona, by your own definition, wouldn’t be a clone. The most successful clone is indistinguishable from an original.
As long as no one is getting suckered, clones are fine, in my opinion. I just don’t want to see builders profiting off of unwitting buyers. If someone wants to pay big bucks for a fully-transparent clone, that’s their prerogative.
As for the ’71 Superbird you linked, I think it’s an undesirable car, but a very cool idea. The Beinekes have explored an alternate history for Plymouth racing, and that’s a pretty creative concept, even if it is rooted in plans that were already developed but never executed. Along those lines, I wouldn’t mind hacking up a wrecked modern Challenger to create a what-could-have-been Javelin, had AMC survived Chrysler’s acquisition by becoming a subsidiary like Jeep.
I would hope anyone with spare cash to afford an authentic car would also have enough snap to look at the VIN before handing over the money. That would be enough to filter out clones.
There have been cases of vin plates and sections of metal with numbers stamped being swapped from wrecks into other cars, people go to big lengths when there is $$$ in play.
I’m trying to think of the process I heard used to detect re-stamping, might have been MRI.
Again going back to the Falcon GT world, there are guys who know all the little changes in areas like hole stampings and can look at a car and often tell what month it was built, without looking at the id numbers.
I would hope so too, but in my experience, wealth and intelligence don’t necessarily correlate. Some people have far more money than good sense.
Keep in mind that the Daytona has a different, flush rear window compared to the run of the mill charger. That’s not easy to change. I think they made another model with that window, but it’s pretty rare too, as I recall. I may be wrong, my Mopar knowledge isn’t very deep.
It would be a shame if this car isn’t real, considering it has the plate DAYTONA. If I owned a real Daytona and someone had a clone with that plate, I’d be annoyed haha
Nah, there’s too much over-advertisement on that car already. Even on a real Daytona, I’d rather use something like TALRAK or SCHNOZ to poke fun at the ridiculous aero parts.
To each his own, but such ostentatious cars– however historical and rare– don’t do much for me. I prefer go-fast goodies covered in plain wrappers– something like a four-door ’69 Coronet with an AlterKtion suspension and a 392/6-speed from a wrecked late-model Challenger. The walk is much more important than the talk.
This articles mentions Pajeros and Delicas, even though it has nothing to do with cars. My wife vetoed going to Georgia on family vacation three years in a row. Anyone been there yet?:
https://eurasianet.org/global-tourism-conquers-georgias-untamable-svaneti
This articles mentions Pajeros and Delicas, even though it has nothing to do with cars. My wife vetoed going to Georgia on family vacation three years in a row. Anyone been there yet?:
https://eurasianet.org/global-tourism-conquers-georgias-untamable-svaneti
Hell, I haven’t even been out of North America, but from what I’ve heard, Georgia is safer than a lot of Western European destinations. Personally I don’t really care for urban vacations, but I’d feel more comfortable in Tbilisi than, say, Athens. It’s relatively cheap, too, isn’t it? Is your wife concerned about safety or is she simply not interested in what the country has to offer tourists?
Her holding back is mostly with long and difficult flights, and that the kids are not very interested in hiking. Not that difficult, to my mind. Safety is not really an issue, unless you go to Abkhazia.
Her holding back is mostly with long and difficult flights, and that the kids are not very interested in hiking. Not that difficult, to my mind. Safety is not really an issue, unless you go to Abkhazia.
The hiking is what interests me in all of our destinations, but it’s the rate-limiter for our kids. My wife is currently planning a family trip to Ireland, but keeps striking out my suggestions because they involve “too much walking around looking at nature”. She says the kids will burn out early unless we sprinkle in kitschy souvenir shops and strong wi-fi signals at tourist traps every couple of days.
She might have a point – we failed miserably in the Tatra mountains last year and changed our vacation on the fly. Yet it’s worth trying, and always a good idea to just take in whatever the day presents to you. Everything doesn’t need to be planned in detail beforehand. We had a blast driving through Slovakia and the Czech Republic, finding new spots to see and sleep while we were moving.
Yes, research a few key things to see/experience, and fill in the gaps as you go.
All inclusive resorts are my idea of the breakdown of humanity, so that’s fine. ? The food and the mountains especially, but also relatively well-conserved traditions is what I find interesting.
That’s Appalachia, right? 😉
I wish! If so, I’d visit my family more often!
I’ve been there for skiing, 30 years ago, they have 2-3 ski resorts.
Friend went recently to Tbilisi for a long weekend, one could get 3 course meal for 5 euros incl. some wine and brandy they make there. In a restaurant.
Flights are cheap as Georgia subsidizes these, fly via Riga, Air Baltic has direct flights to Tbilisi, 200€ return.
Someone else might know these details better, but so far as being real, it looks like it is at least based on the right model (Charger 500). Either that or someone went through a lot of trouble to cut out the original rear window with the flying buttresses and replace it with the flush 500-style one.
Got the right exhaust tips too!
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