Hooniverse Asks: Which model could become its own sub-brand?

Jeff Glucker
38

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Volkswagen have just announced that the Chinese market will get a new sub brand. It’s called Jetta, and it’s the result of a partnership with Chinese automaker First Auto Works (FAW). Jalopnik reports that the partnership started back in 1991, and the car maker tag team have been cranking out models ever since. It started with the Jetta, however, and now that model is becoming a make unto its own.

To start, Jetta will offer …well, a Jetta rebadged for its market. Then the automaker will add the appropriate amount of crossovers, because those sell well in every market under the sun. Even on Saturn’s moon Titan. Hot seller over there.

This got me thinking about other models that have gone on to become brands of their own. Ram is one of the more successful that comes to mind. What was once the Dodge Ram is the full Ram family of trucks, and the newest HD version makes an amazing 1,000 pound-feet of torque. Hell, maybe horsepower and torque are the next sub brands for FCA. Also, Hyundai is doing good things right now with its latest lineup of Genesis vehicles.

But what else could become a brand of its own? If Ford decided to make a family of Mustang variants, I wouldn’t be surprised. Nissan could kickstart a Z car revival with a range of performance offerings and body styles all housed under a new sub brand.

What current model do you think could make the jump to sub brand level?

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Jeff Glucker

Jeff Glucker

Jeff Glucker is the co-founder and Executive Editor of Hooniverse.com. He’s often seen getting passed as he hustles a 1991 Mitsubishi Montero up the 405 Freeway. IG: @HooniverseJeff

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38 responses to “Hooniverse Asks: Which model could become its own sub-brand?”

  1. Victor Avatar
    Victor

    Not quite on point , but the Saturn debacle comes to mind . Start from scratch and plan everything carefully and then market a vehicle that is just like all the other crap they sell.

    Reply
    1. Manxman Avatar
      Manxman

      If Saturn was still a brand then the obvious sub-brand would be Titan,after Saturn’s moon, but that’s a truck model of Nissan so that wouldn’t work unless they changed the spelling a little and called it Titanic. No, wait, that wouldn’t work. Well, there are six other moons of Saturn so take your pick. BTW, the precursor of the Saturn brand as far as technology goes was the Pontiac Fiero. Robot bult skeleton body/frame with plastic outer panels. Another GM model left to wither and die because GM failed to follow through with development after spending millions on rebuilding the plant to accomdate the new technology.

      Reply
    2. Maymar Avatar
      Maymar

      I have to step in to defend Saturn’s good honour – I owned a Cavalier, and several relatives owned SL’s, and they were just better cars. GM just didn’t follow through, and what was a fairly competitive car in 1991 was less so by 2001, and then they followed through with the Ion, which was a weird, flawed replacement. Remember, for a while, there were huge owner gatherings in Spring Hill TN, and decent SCCA report, and all sorts of shiny happy vibes until the division got GM’d.

      Reply
    3. Manxman Avatar
      Manxman

      If Saturn was still a brand then the obvious sub-brand would be Titan,after Saturn’s moon, but that’s a truck model of Nissan so that wouldn’t work unless they changed the spelling a little and called it Titanic. No, wait, that wouldn’t work. Well, there are six other moons of Saturn so take your pick. BTW, the precursor of the Saturn brand as far as technology goes was the Pontiac Fiero. Robot bult skeleton body/frame with plastic outer panels. Another GM model left to wither and die because GM failed to follow through with development after spending millions on rebuilding the plant to accomdate the new technology.

      Reply
    4. Jeff Glucker Avatar
      Jeff Glucker

      Good call on Prius

      Reply
    5. salguod Avatar
      salguod

      I owned 2 Saturns, one from each end of the brand’s life.

      My 1992 SL2 was a very good car, well above the quality of other American cars of the time but short of the comparable Japanese brands. The dealer experience was top notch and in the early days Saturn has an enthusiasm among owners that Porsche would envy.

      My 2010 Outlook was a solid large SUV but no better or worse than the other GM vehicles on the same platform. The dealers were closing but they were essentially just like others.

      The rumor I heard about how Saturn got started was that GM acknowledged that it had failed to make a decent small car and it formed Saturn and gave the team free reign. They could use anything in GM they wanted or none at all. They kept the Delco radios. Once Saturn was a success, GM executives wanted to get involved, plus there was pressure to eliminate all the unique Saturn parts. Slowly all that made Saturn good was smothered in GM bureaucracy.

      I have no idea how much of that is true and how much is apocryphal, but it makes a good story.

      Reply
      1. Victor Avatar
        Victor

        And that as they say is the rest of the story ,thanks for the input.

        Reply
  2. 0A5599 Avatar
    0A5599

    For a long time, Corvette was absent of any bowties, and the only reference to Chevrolet was to the motor division. I could kind of see Corvette becoming a brand, but what marketing department would want to distance the halo vehicles from the bread and butter?

    https://www.midwestwheelcover.com/images/products/display/799CCFront.JPG

    Reply
    1. JayP Avatar
      JayP

      I think that was the plan when Old GM was circling the drain in 2008. At least be able to offload to another brand (Toyota?)

      Reply
    2. Hatchtopia Avatar
      Hatchtopia

      What marketing department would do that? Perhaps we should ask some “real people”…

      Reply
    3. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Technically, Corvette is it’s own brand in Europe, seperate from now defunct Chevrolet or even Opel/Vauxhall. Not entirely sure of all the ins and outs of it, how it fits in with that period in the 90s when you could get a Camaro, Cadillac Seville or Holden HSV Commodore via some Vauxhall deallers, but I believe a Dutch Importer had the rights to distribute the Corvette so it wasn’t sold through regular GM channels, even when Chevrolet (aka rebranded Daewoo) appeared as a brand during the 00/10s and then peterered out. Nowadays they handle sales of Corvetted and Camaros as well as Cadillac, though not with any great impact on the market. Not hard to see why when prices here tend to put them right in the territory of Porsches, which have a better dealer network, never mind prestige.

      Reply
  3. JayP Avatar
    JayP

    Mustang could… Mustang coupe, sedan, and CUV are already rumors.
    But Mustang is so tied into the DNA of Ford that it’ll never get the spinoff

    Reply
    1. Hatchtopia Avatar
      Hatchtopia

      Before they axed Mercury, I was thinking that it would be a good opportunity to instead spin a few selected Euro Fords under one umbrella to sell as a bit of a niche market. Now, with the cars being eliminated, this seems like an even better idea to me. Bring back the Focus and the Mondeo, along with some sort of Probe/Cougar-ish car, badge them as Mercurys and have them as an insurance policy for the inevitable gas price spikes. “Ford” keeps their trucks and SUVs/CUVs. Win-win.

      Reply
      1. crank_case Avatar
        crank_case

        Problem is these days, without the US market buying Focus/Fiesta/etc it’s harder to justify continuing developing Ford Europe models like in the old days when Ford Europe was very much separate from Detroit, doubtless Brexit will be used as an excuse for some reshuffling, and given their tie up with VW, everything may end up on a Golf platform. Not the first time Ford/VW have shared models in Europe, there was the Galaxy/Sharan which VAG further spun off as the SEAT Alahambra.

        It’s a nice idea, especially if we got a new Ford Puma, but Ford Europe seems to be on the retreat these days sadly, sandwiched between the Koreans coming up and German premium players pushing down into the Mondeo/Focus market helped by PCP deals 🙁

        Reply
    2. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      I really want them to do a four door and call it the Mustang Falcon, to enter it in V8 supercars and watch the subsequent fan meltdown.

      Reply
      1. Vairship Avatar
        Vairship

        Should they call it the Mustang Falcon Cougarbird?

        Reply
        1. crank_case Avatar
          crank_case

          YES! and do a Shelby TypeR GTI TransAm version just to really screw with people.

          Reply
  4. Sjalabais Avatar
    Sjalabais

    “Honey, can you fill up the Snipe?” – yeah, I think that could work.
    http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7603/16961764086_a8be0265e7.jpg

    Reply
  5. crank_case Avatar
    crank_case

    Given the VAG-Porsche connection, would it be too much to expect Skoda to ressurect the Rapid, not as an a forgettable sub-Jetta saloon, but as a brand making compact rear engined poor mans 911s for sub fast hatch money?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Skoda_130_Rapid.jpg

    The sub-brand thing is weird though, it’s hard to do right, especially long term (see Scion, Saturn, etc.) and if you divorce the halo models into their own thing, like Seats weird “Cupra” decision, what’s left to glam up the parent brand? Yet at the same time, truly great names that have potential if you were to only invest in them properly like Lancia are left to rot. Go figure..

    Reply
  6. Zentropy Avatar
    Zentropy

    Prius seems pretty obvious, or has it already become a sub-brand of Toyota?

    Reply
  7. Tiller188 Avatar
    Tiller188

    Spinning off the Nissan Z into its own brand sounds interesting, not least because it’s well-overdue an update, anyway. Maybe resurrect the Datsun name and start off with a pair of Zs, one pure 2 seater (basically the next-gen 370Z) and a slightly lengthened one more focused on being a 2+2 GT? From there…a compact sport sedan is probably next (510 revival?) in the spirit of the brand, but realistically a CUV of some flavor would be the more likely next step…

    Reply
  8. Tiller188 Avatar
    Tiller188

    Spinning off the Nissan Z into its own brand sounds interesting, not least because it’s well-overdue an update, anyway. Maybe resurrect the Datsun name and start off with a pair of Zs, one pure 2 seater (basically the next-gen 370Z) and a slightly lengthened one more focused on being a 2+2 GT? From there…a compact sport sedan is probably next (510 revival?) in the spirit of the brand, but realistically a CUV of some flavor would be the more likely next step…

    Reply
  9. KentMB1 Avatar
    KentMB1

    Two actually, Wrangler and Corvette.

    Reply
    1. Hatchtopia Avatar
      Hatchtopia

      The problem with the Wrangler idea is the name. There is so much invested in that name, that having a “Wrangler” without the Jeep name would be virtually worthless. I don’t think that renaming the other “Jeeps” would be a starter either. Corvette I could see because GM.

      Reply
      1. outback_ute Avatar
        outback_ute

        You could say that Jeep has already been turned from a model into a brand.

        Reply
  10. Batshitbox Avatar
    Batshitbox

    Miata, I think, could survive without being associated with Mazda, but it would be a one-trick-pony, right? Almost all the ones I can think of would be.

    The problem comes up that most models don’t really have names anymore. Could a company called “911” or “WRX” really make it? What else would they make? Ram is a line of trucks, but you won’t see Ford spinning off “F-150” as a brand. Lincoln tried spinning of Continental as a brand, but brought the name back under the marque. (Boy, it would piss off Bentley if Lincoln tried that again.)

    EDIT: For what have just occurred to me to be obvious reasons, “Nine-Eleven” is really not an option for a new company name.

    Reply
    1. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Well, it kind of was a brand already in Japan at least right back at the beginning if you remember that the Miata is known as the Eunos Roadster over there and the odd Japanese thing of dividing up their dealer networks into “stores” that only feature certain cars from the range. Eunos featured some pretty cool cars, the Miata/MX5/Eunos Roadster obviously, but also the MX3 coupe, a CRX sized coupe that could be had with what was then the worlds smallest V6, the Xedos saloons which featured miller-cycle engines, some 323/Familia/Lantis variants and right at the top of the tree, the magnificent Eunos Cosmo, a luxury GT available with a triple rotary engine.

      You might be wondering where the RX7 and AZ1 fit into this obviously “sporty” brand. They don’t. Bizarrely they were sold under the Efini and very short lived Autozam brand respectively.

      I can’t see Mazda seperating it out in the rest of the world in reality though, the rest of the range, though only slightly more entertaining than the average cooking car (I say this as a Mazda 2 owner who’s had three Eunos Roadsters) riffs on that “Jinbai Ittai” association with the MX5 too much, even the SUVs try play up the association with the CX prefix.

      Reply
    2. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Well, it kind of was a brand already in Japan at least right back at the beginning if you remember that the Miata is known as the Eunos Roadster over there and the odd Japanese thing of dividing up their dealer networks into “stores” that only feature certain cars from the range. Eunos featured some pretty cool cars, the Miata/MX5/Eunos Roadster obviously, but also the MX3 coupe, a CRX sized coupe that could be had with what was then the worlds smallest V6, the Xedos saloons which featured miller-cycle engines, some 323/Familia/Lantis variants and right at the top of the tree, the magnificent Eunos Cosmo, a luxury GT available with a triple rotary engine.

      You might be wondering where the RX7 and AZ1 fit into this obviously “sporty” brand. They don’t. Bizarrely they were sold under the Efini and very short lived Autozam brand respectively.

      I can’t see Mazda seperating it out in the rest of the world in reality though, the rest of the range, though only slightly more entertaining than the average cooking car (I say this as a Mazda 2 owner who’s had three Eunos Roadsters) riffs on that “Jinbai Ittai” association with the MX5 too much, even the SUVs try play up the association with the CX prefix.

      Reply
  11. Batshitbox Avatar
    Batshitbox

    Volkswagen and Ford could spin off their new collaboration on light trucks. Of course, they’d be obligated to call it Caddy, just to stick it to General Motors.

    Reply
    1. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Dealers could be called Caddy Shacks.

      Reply
    2. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Dealers could be called Caddy Shacks.

      Reply
      1. Vairship Avatar
        Vairship

        Whereas those Ford and Volkswagen dealers that DON’T have Caddies to sell will be referred to as Caddy Lacks.

        Reply
  12. crank_case Avatar
    crank_case

    Given the VAG-Porsche connection, would it be too much to expect Skoda to ressurect the Rapid, not as an a forgettable sub-Jetta saloon, but as a brand making compact rear engined poor mans 911s for sub fast hatch money?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Skoda_130_Rapid.jpg

    The sub-brand thing is weird though, it’s hard to do right, especially long term (see Scion, Saturn, etc.) and if you divorce the halo models into their own thing, like Seats weird “Cupra” decision, what’s left to glam up the parent brand? Yet at the same time, truly great names that have potential if you were to only invest in them properly like Lancia are left to rot. Go figure..

    Reply
  13. SlowJoeCrow Avatar
    SlowJoeCrow

    Sub branding risks creating dead ends. The only moderately successful example I can think of was BMC in the 50s/60s where the brands were more like trim levels, Austin/Morris as the base spec, Wolsely as luxury trim, Riley as high performance luxury trim, and Vanden Plas as super luxury.This worked on several series, culminating in the Princess, but then they killed it in favor of Austins with multiple trim levels

    Reply
    1. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Yeah, but it probably worked because the home market was insanely class obsessed. There was a company car documentary posted here a while back that sums up the petty middle England mindset. It’s funny and tragic at the same time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQsMFQZa8os

      Reply
    2. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      Yeah, but it probably worked because the home market was insanely class obsessed. There was a company car documentary posted here a while back that sums up the petty middle England mindset. It’s funny and tragic at the same time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQsMFQZa8os

      Reply
      1. SlowJoeCrow Avatar
        SlowJoeCrow

        Yes, I’ve seen that at and it was dead on. My view of BMC’s badge engineering is that they mapped the different brands onto the Ford style L, GL, Ghia ladder until the late 70s when as BL they axed the brands in favor of applying Ford style trim levels, City, L, HL, Vitesse, Vanden Plas. GM actually did something similar in the 50s and 60s where brand and trim levels formed a ladder from Chevrolet to Pontiac, to Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac. Then during the 70s Brougham era they broke it by making luxury trim on lesser models and increased platform sharing

        Reply
        1. crank_case Avatar
          crank_case

          I kinda can’t help think history keeps repeating itself. Platform sharing makes a lot of economic sense, but surely GM running once proud, and long standing brands like Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Buick into the ground, with Cadillac nearly not making it a squillion cars off a Golf MQB platform might eventually bite you in the ass, not matter how many sub-brands you come up with.

          Reply
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