V.I.S.I.T. – Alfa Romeo 164L

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I don’t think anyone will dispute that there are not a lot of Alfa Romeo 164s left in daily use by non-enthusiasts. Those of you living on the two coasts: you must remember when these were still sold new, right? Doesn’t feel that long ago, does it? I think a local dealership chain got by selling Eagles, these, and also Jag-wires. (Although they pronounced it Jag-you-ares in their TV commercials). But Alfa Romeo in the US was in dire straits at the time, and was essentially down to the 164 and the recently facelifted (again) Spider. The Spider 816 was about to come out and start selling in same limited bi-coastal locations, but it never materialized as Alfa Romeo pulled the plug on their US operations in 1995.

Taking over from the Alfa 75 which was sold as the Milano over here, the 164 was only available in the states with the top of the line engine, the 3.0 liter V6. Cause why else would American buyers bother, the thinking went. And they were right, as the Alfas competed with quite heavily optioned cars in America, ignoring for a second the reality that if a customer wanted an Alfa, they probably wouldn’t end up purchasing it because the competition came up short. People bought Alfas because they were Alfas, not because they bested a Volvo 740 in the rear-legroom department. Like the cars of several recently departed brands, the 164s are just now starting to transition from used cars into collectibles, or at the very least, slightly ironic and mechanically adventurous rides.

Alfa Romeo sales in the US had been declining for years, and the economic recession of the early 1990s didn’t help matters. That, coupled with the fact that Alfa really only sold on the two coasts, prevented Alfa from regaining the momentum it had in North America in the late 70s and early 80s.

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These are aging really well, and it’s nice to see a 164 in a color other than red or black, even though they look amazing in those colors. It’s kind of a shame that Alfa Romeo didn’t bother to market the 33 in the US, as that car stayed in production till 1995, and could very well have given Alfa the segment flexibility it needed (as the 33 came in sedan and wagon form) to stay in the US just a little longer. But that was a decision that was made long before Alfa’s sales really started to dip in America, to the point that it didn’t make sense staying here. I tend to blame the economic recession of the early 90s, as well as the lack of new models in Alfa’s pipeline around this time. After all, there were only so many customers for the aging Spider, which pretty much carried Alfa’s sales, with the 164 being there just to offer a (quite expensive) alternative to a BMW for the Alfisti.

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This is one of those cars that I’ve always wanted to try, but never got around to sheepishly asking for a test drive at a classic car show. You can still find these in Craig’s Listings and Suggestions for south of 3 grand, but you don’t really want those. 164 owners tell me that the later cars are better, and it never hurts to try to source a car (even with spotty service records) from a region that had knowledgeable Alfa mechanics for long after Alfa departed our shores. So, uhh, I guess you may not want a 164 that spent its whole life in Bozeman, Montana, or Dodge City, Kansas.

When was the last time you saw a daily driven Alfa Romeo 164?

[Images: Copyright 2013 Hooniverse/Jay Ramey]

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29 responses to “V.I.S.I.T. – Alfa Romeo 164L”

  1. FuzzyPlushroom Avatar
    FuzzyPlushroom

    The last 164 I saw was in Dundee, Scotland in 2009.
    Seriously.
    I would've shot it if I wasn't about to catch a bus.
    And I live in New England, so…

    1. Syrax Avatar
      Syrax

      That's a long bus ride.

      1. FuzzyPlushroom Avatar
        FuzzyPlushroom

        Not so long when your bus is an Airbus. But you knew what I meant.

  2. Alff Avatar

    There are a couple of daily driven 164s in Kansas City, including one that belongs to an acquaintance who introduced me to the local AROC.
    For my money, I'd rather have any of their earlier RWD sedans.

  3. LTDScott Avatar

    I only have two instances where I had personal experience with these:
    1. My friend's 164 broke down in Camarillo at another friend's wedding, so I had to give him a ride home back to San Diego, and he had to use several people's AAA memberships to get the car towed back.
    2. The glorious sounding one that has run at a few CA LeMons races. We actually borrowed that team's garage to swap the engine on the POS Saab 900 Turbo I was racing, so I leaned against the 164 parked inside there many times.

  4. Verdegrrl Avatar
    Verdegrrl

    We're down to one 164 LS after having two. My FIL keeps one around for when his BMW (inevitably) breaks. They are on the higher end of the maintenance scale, but if they are cared for, they are very reliable. The problem is when you get broke ass owners limping them along on a shoestring while hooning them into the ground.
    When the 164 was new, the handling was a revelation for a large FWD sedan. Many car makers bought them to benchmark and reverse engineer for their own lines.

  5. wisc47 Avatar
    wisc47

    I saw an Alfa Romeo 164 in Milwaukee a couple years ago. It was being driven in February so I can only imagine the rust issues it had thanks to the heavily salted roads (it was dirty enough to be a daily driver). It's funny, I saw it and geeked out; my parents asked me what I was so excited about and pointed at it. They seemed rather unimpressed. I guess they really only appeal to enthusiasts, otherwise people write them off as early 90's beaters.

    1. Jay_Ramey Avatar
      Jay_Ramey

      Was it somewhere between or directly on North Prospect and North Farwell, a bit south of the (inevitably) Whole Foods in the Lower East Side/Yankee Hill neighborhood?

      1. wisc47 Avatar
        wisc47

        Yeah it was just a bit north of Yankee Hill, if memory serves me correctly, close to Brady Street. It was either a similar gray color to this one you posted or forest green.

        1. Jay_Ramey Avatar
          Jay_Ramey

          Yeah, I remember an old ratty one around that locale, can't remember if it as green or gray, but def not red or black.

  6. Devin Avatar
    Devin

    There's one beat up one around town that has been sitting neglected in a mechanic's parking lot for at least four years, probably more. I kind of want to save it, but I know I can't possibly afford to. I have no idea how an Alfa 164 wound up rusting away in a neglected corner in Saskatchewan, but there it is, every so often I stumble upon something like that around here.

  7. Maxichamp Avatar

    There are always a couple for sale around here. If they were more reliable, I'd be all over it.

    1. mr. mzs zsm msz esq Avatar
      mr. mzs zsm msz esq

      Don't you want to see that spread sheet though? There is only one way. The siren, she calls to ye!

      1. Maxichamp Avatar

        I just test drove a Saab 9-2. I loved its handling.

        1. mr. mzs zsm msz esq Avatar
          mr. mzs zsm msz esq

          Cool, but I just have a feeling it's not the right SAAB for you. Keep looking!

  8. Stu_Rock Avatar

    When I lived there, I saw them in Wisconsin nearly as often as I see them here in the Bay Area–infrequently. Seven years may have changed "infrequent" to "never" in the land of rust, though.

  9. Bret Dodson Avatar

    There are a few here in the Seattle area I see from time to time. I remember the 164 fondly as I was one of the very last Alfa Romeo new car salesmen. I've always thought it would be fun to have a 94 or 95 164 Q. Then I come to my senses and remember that we're getting close to the 25 year import date for an SZ or RZ.
    <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Alfa_SZ_AutoItalia_Brooklands_May_2012_THP_7123.jpg&quot; width = "600">
    image courtesy of wikipedia

    1. wunno sev Avatar
      wunno sev

      the sz is hideous
      it's not even that it's too avant-garde for me, or that it's a misunderstood beauty. it's just really ugly in every sense. i'm not willing to accept its being an alfa or from a famous italian design house as an explanation as to why i'm wrong. they have good reputations but they fucked up with the sz. maybe they handed the project to interns.
      i am presenting this statement as a fact, not an opinion.

      1. Bret Dodson Avatar

        Wow, tough crowd. I don't even merit capital letters. 🙁
        I love it for its hideousness; it's called "il Mostro" for a reason. Based on the 75, I like to think of it as the ultimate GTV6.
        I'm a driver. I'm all about the experiences one enjoys when driving a car. Fast, slow, it doesn't matter. I don't really care what a car looks like. Anyone who sees my Miata will understand this. Yes, I also have a "gorgeous" Austin Healey 3000, however I don't let the Healey's physical beauty interfere with its brutish enjoyability. How a car feels and sounds and smells is more important than how it looks to me.
        The SZ has been a dream car for me ever since they came out. Alfa was jumping on the FWD bandwagon and this was the last RWD car they made that I really wanted.
        I hope I get to drive one some day. I still dream to own one. Maybe if enough folks feel like wunno sev the resale values will stay reasonable enough for me to buy one.

        1. wunno sev Avatar
          wunno sev

          i respect that. besides, alfa v6.

      2. Alff Avatar

        Cool. I won't be bidding against you.

      3. wunno sev Avatar
        wunno sev

        i might have been a bit of a dick about presenting my statement, but do people really disagree with me enough to give me -4?
        i don't think i've ever seen such a low score on hooniverse. i better watch my back

    2. verdegrrl Avatar
      verdegrrl

      Over 1 lateral G on 225 series tires is all you need to say.

  10. MattC Avatar
    MattC

    I was working at Philadelphia International Airport from 1996-2002. While I lived in the area, there was probably the last family owner Alfa dealership just south of the airport. On my off times, I would just stroll through the dealership (they has some pristine GTV6s, Milanos and 164s) and plot to buying one before asking my wife. I never did pull the trigger and do regret it. I did buy a Saab 9000Cd that did share similar platforms with the 164. The Saab was safe and reliable but had nothing on that glorious Alfa 3.0L v6.

  11. John Avatar
    John

    I have a 1991 164L for sale in Houston Texas right now for under $1500. Needs a fuel sending unit and cosmetic work for just get it for the parts.

    1. John Avatar
      John

      My number is 713.858.5040

  12. wunno sev Avatar
    wunno sev

    given how car sales went in the '90s, i don't think the 33's being offered as a wagon would have kept them in the US market. remember, this is the same decade during which mercedes-benz started selling an SUV.

  13. Gavin Avatar
    Gavin

    I see a dark green example rolling around the outer Boston (of all places) suburb of Watertown on a daily basis on a special mechanic's license plate. These license plates are similar to dealer plates but have 'repair' written at the top. Fitting…

  14. owl Avatar
    owl

    Mine was even that colour. Did 99000 miles back between 1992 and 94. Second best car I ever had (probably).
    For a long time it was the fastest car I'd ever drive – well, the fastest I'd ever driven a car. reach 149 indicated on the Wickham Market bypass. I miss it alot and it only let me down once, when the radiator sprang a leak near home.
    Thank you for stirring the memories