Last Call: Has the new Toyota 86 been confirmed?

I’ve been seeing posts about this leak floating around my Twitter feed so I thought I would give my two cents about it. What has been claimed so far is that the new 86 is set for a 2021 release. It is also rumored that it’s going to get a power bump to 255 ponies. That honestly sounds great since this is one of the least satisfying cars considering how fast it looks. Plus, the engine bay has so much empty space it’s been begging for a small turbo for years.

Even if it’s getting a 50 hp increase that still won’t be enough for a good majority of buyers. It’s a great candidate for an engine swap since the stock one is so puny, so I have no doubt that people will continue to LS, 2JZ, hell Ferrari 458 swap them anyways. Which is fine, because hey, do what you want. But unless it gets an actual small turbo that lets people tune it without having to buy a whole kit, I don’t think it will feel much different. What do you think?

Last Call indicates the end of Hooniverse’s broadcast day. It’s meant to be an open forum for anyone and anything. Thread jacking is not only accepted, but it’s also encouraged.

 

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25 responses to “Last Call: Has the new Toyota 86 been confirmed?”

  1. 0A5599 Avatar
    0A5599

    If they go the other direction and kill the model, how many headlines are going to say something about 86-ing the 86?

    1. dead_elvis, inc. Avatar
      dead_elvis, inc.

      Every. Single. One.

  2. Zentropy Avatar
    Zentropy

    Honestly, I think 255 hp is plenty. I mean, the Supra has 335 hp to carry its 3400 lbs and manages upper-3-second 0-60 times. An 86 weighs around 2800 lbs, so for Supra equivalence, it would require 275 hp. I don’t think the 86 is meant to be that fast a performer. Besides, you ask anyone if they’d like 25% more horsepower, I’m sure they’d be thrilled.

    Also, I’m not unhappy with the 200-ish hp the 86 currently has– I just think it’s ugly. The proposed revision isn’t gorgeous, but is definitely an improvement.

    1. Maymar Avatar
      Maymar

      I’m very much in the minority here, but I thought the 200hp that the current Toyobaru has is perfectly adequate. I’ve driven a few, and they’re fun, the same way a Miata is fun (which, to have the same power to weight as the current Miata, it’d only need 220hp or so). Better character would have helped the Toyobaru’s engine, or less weight, or a lower price tag, but I’m concerned more power will bring more weight.

      1. outback_ute Avatar
        outback_ute

        Getting rid of the infamous torque dip sounds like a good starting point, plus the option of a 2.5L engine would presumably hit the 255 hp mark with no other changes and no real increase in weight.

        1. Zentropy Avatar
          Zentropy

          That is indeed an unusual torque curve. I’ve only had a brief stint driving one– not enough to get a good feel for the power range. At the time, I was more interested in the handling.

          https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/scion/fr-s/2013/fe/2013_scion_fr-s_det_fe_1011123_600.jpg

          1. Fuhrman16 Avatar
            Fuhrman16

            It seems rather odd that there would be such a drop of torque between 3300 to 4600 rpm considering how flat the curve is throughout the rest of the rev range.

        2. Maymar Avatar
          Maymar

          I suppose it depends on if the components were overbuilt or not – 500lbs more than a Miata hopefully didn’t just come from adding a back seat.

          1. outback_ute Avatar
            outback_ute

            I’m pretty sure the gearbox and diff (or variations) are used in other vehicles with more power and weight. I dare say Subaru/Toyota haven’t been as obsessive as Mazda in chasing weight either.

      2. Zentropy Avatar
        Zentropy

        I don’t think you’re in the minority. I just think the call for “mo’ power!” is generally regarded as cooler than being content with “perfectly adequate”. Power is thrilling, but its effect dissipates over time. However, a car that consistently rewards you time after time for making the most of what it has to offer? For nailing the apex, carrying momentum, and seamlessly executing that downshift? That takes a special car, but not necessarily a powerful one. The “Miata” formula has been successful for this long for good reason.

        1. Maymar Avatar
          Maymar

          Sorry, you’re right, not the minority *here*, but in the general autosphere.

      3. salguod Avatar

        Having finally gotten to drive a car with serious power while at FormaCars I certainly get the thrill of mad acceleration, I honestly prefer less power with great handling. My RSX Type S and even more the 325Ci are a lot of fun without the real and legal risks of a high power machine. If the BMW were the 330 instead of the 325 I think it would be perfect.

  3. neight428 Avatar
    neight428

    Looks fun, and a factory turbo tends to lend itself to easily increasing HP via a few bolt ons, and that does seem to keep the enthusiast community more enthusiastic. Give the yo-boys some low hanging fruit to tweak on and outrun a Mustang driver that missed a shift and your half way to legendary.

  4. Sjalabais Avatar
    Sjalabais

    I’ve never driven one, but it is fascinating to me how a car with 200 hp, intentionally build to be sporty, can be perceived so poorly in its principal domain.

    1. Tiller188 Avatar
      Tiller188

      My brother has a BRZ. It’s definitely a fun car, and especially compared to my WRX (which admittedly are kinda known for body roll), it’s just so flat in corners. It also feels low and planted, again by comparison to the WRX, which itself felt quite low coming from a 1st-gen Mazda3 (part of that could be seating position as much as actual car CG; I have my seat set right down at the bottom of its travel, and the WRX’s seems to be able to go lower/closer to the floor than the Mazda’s could. YMMV.) The BRZ isn’t really fast in a straight line, but it feels very at-home on a curvy road. That, I think, is really its principal domain, and it does well there. He and I have also taken our respective Subarus to trackdays together; we’re both novices, and I’m sure the WRX has a lot more capability than I’m getting out of it, but looking at our laptimes, I’ve wondered/worried before about what would happen if my brother had some stickier tires (he’s stock, the WRX is on PS4S’) or just a little more power.

      Having said that,the BRZ does feel a little gutless, especially just after a shift. I wasn’t sure at first if it was just the lower power and more linear delivery compared to the WRX’s old-school-turbo Jekyll-and-Hyde behavior, but it really does seem to fall on its face in the midrange (and dyno graphs showing the torque dip back that up). My buddy’s Miata is less powerful, and also doesn’t feel really fast in a straight line, but the engine is happier to rev and just feels more lively.

      If the next-gen 86 does make 255 hp, I’ll be very interested to see how they do it. That kind of power in that size package practically guarantees a turbo nowadays, I’m thinking, but I could see the argument for keeping a car of this type NA, and I’d be impressed if they pulled it off.

      1. Zentropy Avatar
        Zentropy

        Rumor has it that the engine is the 2.4L turbo four used in the Ascent and Outback, which puts out 260 hp in those cars. Unfortunately, Motor Trend criticized that engine for “uneven power delivery”. That doesn’t sound promising. I’d rather have a smooth, eager 200-hp engine than an unrefined 250-hp one.

        1. Tiller188 Avatar
          Tiller188

          Hmm, maybe not ideal. To be fair, though, I’m not sure I’d call the current 2.0L “eager”, and I wonder how much of the uneven power delivery in that 2.4L is wonky tuning, especially having to do with managing the turbo. Not sure how easy or difficult that would be to fix with a re-map, though.

          1. outback_ute Avatar
            outback_ute

            High compression version of the 2.4 NA would be great

          2. Zentropy Avatar
            Zentropy

            Don’t misunderstand– I’m not calling the current engine “eager”. I’m saying I wouldn’t be disappointed with a 200-hp engine that resolved the midrange power-delivery issues that drags down the current one’s fun-factor. A Miata-like engine around 200-hp would be fine, IMO.

  5. salguod Avatar

    I wonder what one of these would be like with the eager 200hp K20A2 from an RSX Type S or the F20C from an S2000? The K20A2 might be a challenge to adapt to longitudinal installation but should be easier to get.

  6. salguod Avatar

    I wonder what one of these would be like with the eager 200hp K20A2 from an RSX Type S or the F20C from an S2000? The K20A2 might be a challenge to adapt to longitudinal installation but should be easier to get.

    1. Zentropy Avatar
      Zentropy

      That’d be a great engine for it. I think the S2000 transmission will mate up to the K20, but good luck finding one of those.

  7. outback_ute Avatar
    outback_ute

    Read on another site it may be using a Toyota platform for the next generation instead of Subaru. As it is basically it’s own thing currently I don’t think this means anything significant, the TNGA architecture includes rwd, but perhaps Toyota will be in the driver’s seat. Maybe they are more interested than Subaru, indeed will Subaru be involved? Only from the point of view that Toyota could do it alone if they wanted, and there hasn’t been any news about a Subaru version yet.

    Surprising lack of news at all or spy photos for a 2021 model really

    1. Zentropy Avatar
      Zentropy

      Yeah, all I find are artists’ predictions, nothing solid. I personally don’t think Toyota can build a good sports car on its own. Whatever minds and hearts gave us the W20 MR2 and A80 Supra are long gone, replaced apparently by engineers who formerly designed refrigerators and toasters. Modern Toyotas may be reliable transportation appliances, but they don’t light my enthusiast fire in the slightest.

      I’d really like to see Mazda let loose with another sports car. Maybe not an RX-7/8, because I don’t think the rotary is a feasible powerplant these days, but at least a cool halo car. Of all car makers, Mazda really understands how to infuse fun driving into their entire lineup. I’m stoked about the possibility of a RWD sedan with an inline six, but that’s not the same thing as a sports car.

    2. Zentropy Avatar
      Zentropy

      Yeah, all I find are artists’ predictions, nothing solid. I personally don’t think Toyota can build a good sports car on its own. Whatever minds and hearts gave us the W20 MR2 and A80 Supra are long gone, replaced apparently by engineers who formerly designed refrigerators and toasters. Modern Toyotas may be reliable transportation appliances, but they don’t light my enthusiast fire in the slightest.

      I’d really like to see Mazda let loose with another sports car. Maybe not an RX-7/8, because I don’t think the rotary is a feasible powerplant these days, but at least a cool halo car. Of all car makers, Mazda really understands how to infuse fun driving into their entire lineup. I’m stoked about the possibility of a RWD sedan with an inline six, but that’s not the same thing as a sports car.