Hooniverse Asks- What’s The Most Ludicrous Use Of Hybrid Tech?
Hybrids are, to many an enthusiast, the automotive equivalent of granny panties. But for those who value efficiency over speed, milage over handling, and smugness above adrenaline-fueled magical laughter, hybrids have carved out a substantial niche. The standard hybrid of the modern era is defined by an internal combustion engine and an electric motor/battery combo that double teams the effort to move the vehicle. The overall goal is similar to turbo or supercharging, adding an assist to as small an engine as is realistically possible for the given massif the car.
That makes a lot of sense if your goal is lessening your carbon footprint and minimizing your cost per mile, and that’s why cars like Toyota’s Prius and Honda’s Insight make some sense. But it now seems you can’t punch a hippie without having him collapse against a hybrid that doesn’t fit that low-cost, save the planet mantra. Lexus extends their Hybrid technology all the way up to the uber luxury 600, a car that will set you back deep into six figures. BMW has a similar product that’s equally dear, plus there are versions of Porsche’s Panamera and Cayenne that rock down to electric avenue, making them a little more efficient in their fuel use, and a butt load more expensive and complicated.
It’s that extension of the hybrid technology to cars and trucks that seem to cater to an audience least interested in saving the planet that is of questionable logic. What do you think, what’s the craziest hybrid out there?
Image: [cartype]
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They aren't genuinely interested in saving the environment, that's the thing. If they were, they'd know that hybrids are, in fact, horrible for the environment. They are, however, very interested in making people think that they are interested in saving the environment. You don't buy a hybrid to save the planet. You buy it for the moral superiority that comes with it.
What is totally mind blowing about this argument is the fact that all cars require batteries. Electric and Hybrids will only make up about 15% of the car buying population, so the number of batteries will not necessarily increase because of these cars.
If you are worried about the rare earth components used to create these Electric or Hybrid vehicles, then you should be concerned about the vast number of batteries used to power your laptop, smartphone, e-reader, or any other portable device you may use in your everyday life. Using the same logic you use about the Electric Hybrid vehicle, we should all go back to plugged in desktop computers because of the environmental aspects of the rare-earth components used in portable devices.
I don't know a lot about either side of the argument here (in a technical sense), but I do know that the average car battery and the battery packs in electric and hybrid vehicles are two completely different animals.
And yes, there are some who buy hybrids to save the world. Most, however, buy them for a perceived economic gain (how much more did it cost vs. how much are you saving on gas? just saying, it could take a long time and a lot of driving to make up the difference in some cases) or for the smugness factor. Being green is cool, so in typical American fashion, we have to utterly outclass the Joneses- for a lot, it's about pride, not the planet.
Not that I dislike hybrid vehicles, but battery pollution has been a problem since battery-powered portable lights (which started showing up in 1895) became really common in the early 1900s.
Part of the problem with hybrids versus my electronic lifestyle is the total mass of sophisticated (i.e. not lead-acid) battery that needs to be manufactured for a hybrid I might drive, versus the relatively small amount of battery mass that I carry in my smartphone and laptop.
In all of these cases, battery recycling is possible, though 'Merkins resist recycling batteries with a tenaciousness that puts an IRS tax auditor to shame.
This would be a good point apart from the tiny detail that the batteries in hybrid cars constitute hundreds (as in several, more than one) of pounds of batteries that cannot be recycled. Regular car batteries are recycled regularly and easily, as are many small batteries for laptops, smartphones, e-readers or other portable devices.
All batteries are not created equal.
"the batteries in hybrid cars constitute hundreds (as in several, more than one) of pounds of batteries that cannot be recycled"
That is outright and demonstrably false. The technology in a hybrid battery is the exact same as in portable electronics, only scaled up. NiMH batteries tend not to be recycled because they use inexpensive materials, not because they "cannot be recycled." Even so, Toyota now does have a recycling program for them. LiIon and LiPoly batteries in hybrids are exactly the same as batteries in laptops and iPhones.
Um, no.
Hybrid car batteries are NiMH (nickel metal hydride) or Li-ion (lithium ion), the same battery types that are used in consumer electronics, but the battery packs are scaled up for more capacity. If they can recycle 1000 laptop batteries (and they do), they can recycle one car battery pack.
Toyota is recycling NiMH (nickel metal hydride) batteries from their cars. Toxco, the largest North American battery recycler who does a huge business in recycling standard lead-acid car batteries, is recycling Li-ion batteries from hybrids.
Were you not just arguing that regular car batteries are essentially the same as the NiMH batteries used in hybrids?
My bad. Apparently they are recyclable. They aren't exactly the easiest to recycle, but it is possible. Before continuing your (decidedly weak) trolling, here's an article! http://1800recycling.com/2010/03/dark-side-hybrid…
No, I was saying that recycling is being done and that overall, even with recycling, battery pollution (from *all* kinds of batteries) is still a problem. All of this information is on the net, plenty of it in rigorous sources.
The article that you link to doesn't discuss how easy or difficult it is to recycle any battery, and it claims that:
"Lead is considered to be highly toxic and even more of a concern if it seeps into the water systems, yet it is one of the main components found in hybrid batteries. The good news is that lead is easily recycled if it makes it into the appropriate hands. The bad news? Many people throw away their old hybrid car batteries."
Sounds like the author is confused about lead-acid starting batteries that all cars (including hybrids) have, versus the NiMH and Li-ion drivetrain batteries, which don't contain lead in more than trace amounts (soldered connections). I don't think I'd depend on him for correct information about the recycling issue.
Incidentally, the cars at my house are a '08 Impala SS and an '04 Volvo V70R. I think of hybrids and electrics as a good tool for a certain situations, like commuting or in-city driving.
[Citation Needed]
Sorry to hear that. At least hold out for an X-11.
Here's one:
http://www.schmitt.com/viewimage.asp?ID=4045
I like this Citation best!
http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/confusin…
Thank you. The "green" movement is just that. A movement of green(money) into people's pockets. So few people understand what is going on behind the scenes.
This is a Super GT car.
<img src="http://www.minus273.biz/minus273/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Toyota_Prius_GT300-06.jpg" width=550>
Know what it is? Yes, it is a Toyota Prius. Ludicrous.
<img src="http://newcarelease.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2008-Escalade-Hybrid-Front-Rear-View.jpg", width=500>
I came here to say this, but have failed….
Complexity and expense in exhange for very little, if any, net savings and impact on environment. I just looked into a Cayenne S hybrid and the supercharger, electric motor, etc. are mind bogglingly complex.
milage, given massif the car, least interested in saving the planet that is of questionable logic..
No offense meant, but you really ought to proof-read more carefully.
To answer the question, I'd say the first generation Accord Hybrid, which also happens to be one of my favorites. Why? Because it didn't get any better fuel economy than a standard Accord, it was simply faster. 0-60 in around six seconds if I recall correctly.
Didn't the first gen Silverado hybrid get 1 mpg worse than the regular gas version?
Some hybrids are about getting better mileage, the Silverado seemed to be about having a huge battery to charge tools and stuff.
I'm okay with "massif the car" in this context:
<img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_pWqBujBvVw/TyNfElcLEAI/AAAAAAABzmY/F_HSwooEJPg/s640/ayers+rock.jpg" width="450">
I would argue that the Civic Hybrid is more ludicrous. Compare the two: a regular Escalade gets 12 mpg city EPA and the hybrid gets 20 mpg city EPA. That's a 67% improvement in efficiency. The regular Civic gets 26mpg city whereas the hybrid gets 40mpg city. That's a 50% improvement. Plus if you're considering the quantity of gas burned, if the Escalade drives 12,000 city miles per year, you've saved 400 gallons of gas by getting the hybrid. Compare to the Civic, which would have saved only 162 gallons of gas.
Clearly it's better to get people into smaller cars, but if they're going to buy an SUV anyway, a hybrid makes more sense in a big vehicle than a small one!
The only thing I don't like is how they put Hybrid emblems on the front fenders, the C-pillars, and the back, along with the "HYBRID" graphics on the sides, and (on some) the "Hybrid" decals on the front and rear windshields.
Seriously. They totally forgot to put the Hybrid logos on the seatbelts.
<img src="http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/08/500x_dotj-88starion-500px-08.jpg">
If you are going to do something, do it all the way.
I'm of this mentality.
It's not hard to make a very fuel efficient vehicle out of something that's already small and light.
It's the around town use of something heavy wherein hybrids make the most sense. Buses, garbage and delivery trucks are the most obvious candidates, with Mommy tanks coming in second.
There is a movement to do this with service vehicles,
but using hydraulics instead of batteries. Even has
regenerative braking!
Early days, but some are trying to move forward.
I've heard Ford is trying this with their light duty (F150) trucks also.
Really? Hadn't heard about that one. Got any links?
It's a little old and haven't heard much since this but… http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/02/ford-f-150-u…
UPS is getting into the hybrid game with their brown trucks. Seems kind of silly since they have full electric ones over in Europe.
Outside of dense metropolitan areas, there's a lot of territory to cover. Inside dense areas (NYC, LA, etc etc) a full-electric setup makes more sense. However, I'm willing to bet that everybody would want to charge a lot of money for UPS to set up charging stations for their vehicles around a city. Funding may be easier in Europe.
I think that delivery trucks are one of the applications where the advantages of a hybrid powertrain are most apparent. You have lots of engine starting/stopping, lots of braking for regenerative power, and lots of space to store batteries. I don't think fully-electric trucks would work on a large scale in the States, because the sprawl of cities would mean a little range anxiety on the part of the fleet managers. Running out of juice on route simply isn't acceptable. I could see plug-in hybrid trucks being the next big advance, though. Fill it up with enough juice to run all morning on batteries, then have a small diesel motor on board to charge things up once you run out.
Garbage trucks, too. All garbage trucks should have regenerative braking.
I want to start a company to design regen. retrofits to popular chassis currently in use. However; where step 3 is profit and step 2 is 'that thing I just said', I'm having problems with step 1.
1. ?????
2. Design regenerative braking retrofits for popular chassis.
3. Profit!
Every list on the internet has at least one confusing step. Yours is just the first step, instead of the penultimate step.
Lexus 600h.
Why? Because there are performance hybrids like Porsche is working on that get better performance from the technology, then there are economy hybrids like the Prius that get better gas mileage from the technology. But the 600h performs identically in both areas to it's non-hybrid sibling. Meaning, it gains nothing at all. Just a higher MSRP and lower trunk space. But there is always the smug factor, which is a major selling point for Lexus hybrids.
The large scale hybrid trucks like the Peterbilt and UPS trucks I see as the biggest potential winners really. They do a lot of mileage, haul a lot of cargo, and burn a lot of fuel due to their use, thus have a lot to gain. Small cars already get good gas mileage, so the gains to be had in terms of gallons/year is pretty low.
I'm on the fence with these:
<img src="http://carguideblog.com/wp-content/uploads/Dodge-Ram-1500-PHEV-plug-in-hybrid-truck-1.jpg">
Dodge Ram plugin hybrid electric vehicle. I've seen these rolling around my town. I had to go to the internet to see what it was. And yes, they come with those massive decals.
Instead of focusing on the merits of Hybrid Technology, where there have been significant increases in fuel economy, we should all focus on the fact thet there is a significant loophole in the US Fuel Economy figures when it comes to E85 compatibility.
The irony here is that although E85 in fact gets poorer fuel economy than gasoline, for CAFE purposes, the government counts only the 15-percent gasoline content of E85. Not counting the ethanol, which is the other 85 percent, produces a seven-fold increase in E85 mpg. The official CAFE number for an E85 vehicle results from averaging the gas and the inflated E85 fuel-economy stats.
Car and Driver Magazine calculated a test 2005 Chevrolet Tahoe's CAFE rating jumped from 20.1 mpg to 33.3 mpg because it was classified as a Dual Fuel E85 Rated vehicle, blowing through the 22.2-mpg mandate and raising GM's Corporate Fleet average. They went on to say that in 1985, this loophole saved GM almost $200 Million Dollars in fines, and allowed them to produce more Pickup Trucks and Truck Based SUV's, which proved to be one of the reasons for their ultimate bankruptcy.
I'll agree that a loophole like that is pretty stupid (citation, though? Not saying I don't believe you, but it's generally a good idea to not trust too much unverified stuff on the internet). However, I don't think you can blame a a company's bankruptcy on a loophole. You could blame CAFE requirements altogether (probably not the cause), or you can blame management and an inability to put a decent product to market when faced with ever improving products from other companies (probably is the cause), but you can't blame the existence of a loophole. Maybe management's choice to take advantage of it is to blame, but simply because the loophole was there does not mean management had to abuse it.
It's basically true, from my memory the wikipedia article does a god job going through many nuances. There is a strong incentive for E85. The non cynical line of thinking is that E85 was to get us away from foreign oil dependance, so the CAFE rating should promote that. Now after some years regulators have noticed that hardly anyone uses E85 in their flex fuel vehicles, so that benefit in the CAFE numbers should go away. And it is scheduled to disappear. Oh course it got gamed. The next thing that will get gamed is how now there are going to be foot print rules, like vehicles need to be more efficient the smaller that the area under the track width times wheel base is. That will promote larger vehicles to be sold in the USA over smaller ones since it will be easier to meet the fleet averages in that way. There are all sorts of annoying things in CAFE, the domestic vs. foreign numbers always bugged me the most.
The problem is that we're doing dual fuel vehicles all wrong. Basically, most EFI systems can run on straight ethanol (192 proof with the rest water) with no modification. Now, the key here is that I just said 'run', I did not say 'run good'. They might run like crap and have hard times starting up in cold weather, but most EFI vehicles will run thanks to the O2 sensor feedback loop. To fix these things, you generally just need to get bigger injectors, retune the computer and make sure that you don't spray fuel on closed valves (this causes the cold weather starting problems).
GM, Ford and Chrysler make their FlexFuel vehicles by doing essentially those conversion steps, and adding a bit where the computer has more flexibility with its tuning map so it can deal better with gasoline and E85 in one map. That's it.
Pure E85 engines can be more fuel efficient than gasoline engines. E85 has an awesome octane rating, and no one really takes advantage of that. Y'all know this, but higher compression and lower displacement will get you the same power out of a higher octane fuel. The smaller displacement means less fuel consumption. So, ethanol gets a bad rap because it's being used in engines that weren't designed for it.
(Ethanol is a favorite biofuel. Don't mention corn, that will set me off as well. I'm pretty annoyed at how we are screwing up a great fuel in the mind of the public…)
This absolutely ludicrous hybrid of modern cropping and blur technology is so ridiculous, the vast majority of the market has no clue wtf it even is. When such confusion sets in, panic and revolt is inevitable. It is a reckless use of technology resources that flies in the face of modern convention. The creator should be tried for crimes against hoonanity.
<img src="http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Mystery-Car-1-27-121.jpg" width="450/>
You should go check the bottom of the mystery car thread. Kyle_a_m seems to have gotten it.
Semper Fudge:
<img src="http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/1900-porsche-semper-vivus-full-hybrid-recreated_100341574_m.jpg">
<img src="http://node1.ecogeek-cdn.net/ecogeek/images/stories/frybrid.jpg" width =500>
Discuss.
Who doesn't want their car to smell like McDonald's?
I can haz Cheeseburger grease?
I'd love to put together a homegrown
version of the Finnish Drift Merc Wagon.
Veggie, full cage sleeper with faded paint
and rusty wheels. Piss everybody off, while
at the same time making them really hungry….
Have you ever smelled biodiesel exhaust? It smells like Chinese Food. Biodiesel smells delicious. I love it.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure it would scale to a significant number, in the millions of cars range. We've got plenty of fast-food restaurants around, but not enough to supply a really large population with waste vegetable oil. And diesel doesn't have a very good reputation with the American car buying public — they resist buying diesel power cars no matter what, even though the memories of awful US-made diesel cars are long gone.
No doubt it wouldn't scale to the point that you could buy Shell Fry Oil w/ Nitrogen, but for individuals, or small groups, this can be a good solution. If it can replace a couple of barrels of dino oil, that's a couple more barrels for plastics, or race cars, or delivering bacon to my table.
Gotta keep it on the QT, tho. A LOT of people
get really pissy about the subject- ie whether or
not it really works, it lunched my engine, you're
cheating on road gas tax,etc.
Head over to any veggie diesel forum and look
'round- but be warned; they make [redacted]
sound like a bunch of junior Leaguers…
The work done with algae toward a viable
fuel would scale up to cover our needs-
and could use exhaust from coal plants
as seed. but then you get grumblers whinging
about the amount of space they take up.
With any new tech in this arena, you have to
be smart, patient, orderly, and have really
thick skin.
I love your replies. They feel like reading a sonnet.
Aww, thanks!
Wait…what?
Bu they deserve a small measure of credit for making ludicrous look fairly cool. I would feel more entitled to my smugness if I were driving this version of the Prius.
Here's my beef: the discussion of efficiency. Hybrids are not efficient. Adding weight and complexity to a car is the opposite of efficiency. I'm a person who values true efficiency and speed and those two things are not mutually exclusive.
Add lightness, my friends.
Well, let's see. Sorry if this is a bit long…
A 2012 Prius weighs 3100 lbs, and gets 48 city/51 highway mpg.
A 2012 Honda Insight, Honda's lightweight hybrid, weighs 2747 lbs, and gets 41/44 mpg.
A 2012 Ford Fiesta, with 4 doors, auto, five passengers, and hatchback like the Prius, weighs 2575 lbs and gets 29/39 mpg.
A 2012 Miata is arguably a fun, small, lightweight sporty vehicle, and at 2512 pounds, it gets 21/28 mpg.
For big fun, a 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special Brougham sedan weighs in at 5357 pounds, and gets an average 8.2 mpg.
Which vehicle is more efficient? It would be the one that uses less fuel to move an identical amount of mass. Since the cars have different mass, a little arithmetic is needed to equalize the different total vehicle weights. (I'm using standard instead of metric so I don't have to convert everything.)
The MPG/lb (mpg per pound) of each of the vehicles looks like this:
Prius: 48/3100 city, 51/3100 highway, or in rounded decimals: .0155 city, .0165 highway
Insight: 41/2747 city, 44/2747 highway, or in rounded decimals: .0149 city, .0160 highway
Fiesta: 29/2575 city, 39/2575 highway, or in rounded decimals: .0112 city, .0151 highway
Miata: 21/2512 city, 28/2575 highway, or in rounded decimals: .0083 city, .0108 highway
'76 Fleetwood: 8.2/5357 combined, or in rounded decimal: .0015 combined
I think the word you're looking for instead of "efficiency" is "fun." Which I support, I really do. The efficiency king Prius isn't for everybody, and it's possible to have great fun with a sporty lightweight non-hybrid at a not-too-terrible loss in efficiency.
I appreciate the quantitative review. And I agree with the numbers – if you look at it strictly from a fuel consumption standpoint, the numbers make sense.
But, I think there's more to it than that. If you want true "efficiency," you have to consider purchase price, total amount of resources consumed (including all metal, plastic and petroleum) and yes, fun. I appreciate the beauty of being able to lower my windows with the touch of a finger and having A/C and all of the mod cons. But in the long run, I think people and carmakers have confused high gas mileage with efficiency. If you want a truly efficient car, you start with something small and take the gadgets out. Build with lightweight materials. Do without some unnecessary options. That will help both speed and fuel economy – it just takes a little bit of sacrifice on the buyer's part.
Perhaps most people are not willing to make that sacrifice – but there's little choice out there now for someone who wants a pretty basic, but entertaining car. And I think that's sad.
…sigh…you remind me of a roommate I once had.
We'd find ourselves debating until we were blue in the face over something like "[XXXX] is not a sports car"…and it came down to the fact that his definition of the term was different from everyone else's.
The term efficiency means how much of A you get out for how much of B is consumed. That's what it means.
What you're talking about is simplicity, cost effectiveness, value, or qualitative "design beauty"…and to that end you're kinda right.
Roommate: good or bad? I had a roommate that like to wash his shoes in the dishwasher. With dishes.
I think there's more to B than just gas. Like metal, plastic and all the stuff that goes into cars. Other than that, I think we're pretty much in agreement. And perhaps simplicity is my main goal. I'm getting sick of touch-screen everything and the complete loss of true mechanical parts. I like to hear a "click."
You do make a great point. I would like to add a few more things in to the mix. Let's also look at the carrying capacity of the vehicles, the GVWR – CurbWeight. I can't find any good statistics right now. We would then look at the MPG per carrying capacity. This is why trains and tractor trailers and cargo ships are still so efficient relative to other ways to transporting the same goods.
In trying not to waste my whole workday on Hooniverse, I chose general capabilites rather than carrying capacity or interior volume. (And really, how often do you weigh your passengers and cargo before putting them in your car?)
The Prius is designed to carry five passengers, as is the Insight, as is the Fiesta. The Prius has a hatchback, which is also available on the Fiesta. I included the Miata for inexpensive sporty driving, and the '76 Fleetwood for ludicrousness and its palatial back seat accomodations. I didn't choose brands for any specific reasons.
I actually should have used the 2012 Focus rather than the Fiesta, as the Focus has more similar interior volume figures to the Prius. It weighs 2889lb with the hatchback, and gets 28/38 with the "normal" automatic transmission. So if it were included above, MPG per pound would be:
Focus: 28/2889 city, 38/2889 highway, or in rounded decimals: .0097 city, .0132 highway
The biggest disappointment is any of the recent Hondas with the IMA system. They're so proud of it, but but the fuel economy is underwhelming.
These English-American Hybrids have always been seen as sort of insane:
<img src="http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-stuv/Shelby-Cobra-427-blue-fa-lr-1280×960.jpg"width=500>
Oh wait, you mean the other kind of hybrid.
<img src="http://www.plunderguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/BMW-X6-ActiveHybrid-3.jpg">
Because it's the most ludicrous vehicle on the market in general, so naturally the hybrid model is the answer.
nooooo!
(runs away crying)
What I think a lot of people miss is the physics of efficiency. From the laws of thermodynamics we find that whenever energy is transferred between states(eg chemical energy to mechanical energy) there is energy lost in the form of heat.
In a standard gasoline/diesel vehicle
Gas is chemical
Burns to become mechanical [Loses energy through heat]
Mechanical energy from engine through transmission and differential to ground [Loses energy through friction]
In a hybrid engined vehicle or a straight electric vehicle
Gas is chemical
Burns to become mechanical [Loses energy through heat]
Turns generator making electrical energy [Loses energy through heat]
Charges battery [Batteries are not 100% efficient, loses energy through heat]
Battery discharges [Loses energy through heat as batteries are not 100% efficient]
Electricity drives electric motor [Loses energy through heat]
Mechanical energy from motor through transmission and differential to ground [Loses energy through friction]
I know this is over simplified and is more like a plug in than a hybrid. Also I understand that large scale electricity production is more efficient than small scale electricity production. However, my concept is there.
You may be overestimating heat-loss as a factor. The critical figure is the real-world result of running the vehicle, in MPG per pound (or km/liter per kg). I posted further up in this topic comparing a number of cars' efficiency in MPG per pound, but you can generate the numbers yourself by googling the mpg and weight figures, and using a little arithmetic.
(I did leave out non-hybrid electrics, as the remote generation and transmission of electricity is hard to convert to miles-per-gallon of fossil fuel consumed, especially if part of the electricity is generated by hydro or nuclear or feeding the souls of puppies to dread Cthulhu.)
Thank you for pointing this out better than I ever could!
The Fiarbanks-Morse FM H-10-44
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Milw_760_at_IRM.jpg"width=400>
It is a traditional diesel-electric hybrid locomotive, by the ludicrous part come in the diesel engine. It is an opposed piston design that lacks any sort of cylinder head.
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Opposite_piston_engine.gif"width=400>
I don't know, Napier Deltic engines have always had me a bit interested for some reason.
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Napier_deltic_animation_large.gif/220px-Napier_deltic_animation_large.gif">
Agreed–ludicrous power in a relatively small package. And an engine noise unlike anything else on the planet.
Even more ludicrous: This cat's built a miniature operating model.
<img src="http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/clen1.jpg" width=350>
<img src="http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/clen2.jpg" width=350>
My favorite pic–he milled the pistons out of the skirt of another piston. Here they are before he cut them off.
<img src="http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/clen8.jpg" width=350>
<a href="http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm” target=”_blank”>http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm
Yo dawg, I herd you like pistons.
Multimodal shipping wonks make a big deal of
the small amount of fuel per ton per mile of trains.
We should try to emulate that. Diesel to electric
drive in the wheel hubs (eMotion type), so the engine
moves the vehicle at barely above idle. Supercapacitors
instead of batteries. Lighten the chassis.
Please see Rocky Mountain Institute "Hypercar" http://www.rmi.org/Autos
Slightly OT:
If I had the time and the money, I'd take a Prius and turn it into a RWD car powered by a blown Hemi. And I'd have uncorked chrome pipes coming straight from the exhaust ports through holes in the hood. And it'd shoot fire.
And I'd troll Prius meetups, spinning donuts in the parking lot next to them and shaming their hipster rides with clouds of tire smoke.
<img src="http://priuschat.com/forums/attachments/gen-ii-prius-modifications/6967d1197405070-performance-parts-prius-prius-blown.jpg" width="300/">
Plus eleventybiazillion!!! I really want to do this, though my plan is a tad more subtle. A nice quiet V8 or V12 from a modern Ferrari idles very quietly, but would lay all kinds of rubber when opened up.
I'll have to go with the Bellier Véloto
<img src="http://a6.idata.over-blog.com/500×375/4/13/84/18/Veloto/Veloto-0022.JPG" width="300">
which is powered by a hybrid combination of a two-stroke engine
<img src="http://a10.idata.over-blog.com/500×375/4/13/84/18/Veloto/DSCN0650.JPG" width="300">
and twin pedals
<img src="http://a405.idata.over-blog.com/500×375/4/13/84/18/Veloto/DSCN0655.JPG" width="300">
Photos and more (in French) here, including a copy of the document confirming its street-legal status:
http://motobecane-restauration-passion.over-blog….
If you prefer an electric hybrid, I'm still waiting for my Lyman Electric Quad to arrive. The last I heard it was in Wisconsin.
A sure winner in at least one category of the Concours de Lemons…
The most ludicrous use of hybrid technology is giving hybrid owners special privileges. Who is more deserving of a single passenger exemption in the carpool lane-the guy whose car sips fuel and gets better EPA ratings in stop-and-go than highway, or the guy in a landyacht with 2.5 tons of mass to get rolling every time he takes his foot off the brake? Who would benefit society more with a reserved spot by the door of Whole Foods-the guy who would otherwise be circling the parking lot spewing fumes from his poorly – tuned beater, or the guy who could circle the lot for the next 20 minutes without resorting to internal combustion?
If you bought a hybrid to save the planet, give the privileges where they do the most good.
The priveleges were incentives to get people to buy and try the vehicles, not to reduce absolute emissions.
San Francisco ended its program to allow "regular" hybrids to use the HOV lanes on 4/1/2011. Pure electric and plug-in hybrid sticker programs are currently running.
<img src="http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2011-honda-CR-Z-review-720×481.jpg" width="500/">
Source: My Review!
While driving a Honda with low-end torque and the ability to oversteer was indeed stimulating, there's no reason this car needs to be saddled with an extra few hundred pounds of nonsense (and reduced trunk space) when a revvy 1.something liter motor (maybe turbo-ed?) would've delivered results at least as good as the 31/37.
This. If memory serves, it shares it's basic chassis architecture with the Fit as well as it's engine. Yet it manages to only get 3-4 mpg better city fuel economy despite being a hybrid. If bought purely based on being a hybrid then the time required to get a positive return on investment versus having just bought a Fit is ludicrous. Plus, I would add, similar horsepower is attainable with similar MPG without the use of a hybrid system. Case in point: The Hyundai Accent. It has 138 hp and 30 city/ 40 hwy MPG, all while being a much cheaper car. It's sad to say it but Honda has lost it's soul. For a company that had brought us the CRX HF, Civic VX and HX and the original Insight to offer the CRZ as an efficient fun car is just sad.
the Escalade/tahoe hybrid
The Toyota Prius
I drove in one today for the first time. What an unspirited car…. Pretty much any other car would have been a better package for hybrid technology.
I came up with a new way to describe the Prius this morning. Pleasantly Horrible.
I had never before yesterday been in one, and I always thought people were exaggerating! There's so many things that are wrong with that car……. I guess since it kept me dry and brought me from A to B it didn't completely fail. Pleasantly horrible is probably a proper description!
Hoonitariat, I am disappoint. The CX-75 is the most ludicrous hybrid of all time. And the most f*cking awesome hybrid of all time, too.
Two mother-fraggin' microturbines, four motors and 780hp. What.
<img src="http://carmotif.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2011-Jaguar-CX75-top-view.jpg">
<img src="http://www.aftermarketcarparts.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/jaguar-cx75-turbine-engines.jpg">
<img src="http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/jaguar-Cx75-photo-02.jpg">
[youtube qaF9iYw--QI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaF9iYw--QI youtube]
Looks like you need to set up an Intense Debate profile.
I hope you do – your contributions here are great, but you can't be "followed" w/o an ID profile, AFAIK.