Hooniverse Asks- What Car or Truck Type Currently Has the Worst Stigma?
Remember Minivans? They were the vehicles that once made Chrysler relevant again. More efficient than the traditional wagon, they made family hauling seem a new and innovative task. And then, over time, they became the lumbering symbol of a suburban housewife, chained to sticky kids and mind-numbing Costco checkout lines. Eventually, the minivan collected such a stigma of planned community malaise that you could smell them a block away. Or maybe that was the spilled milk and Fruit Loops ground into the upholstery?
Whatever caused the great abandoning of the minivan, its place in history is secure as is its parabola of popularity. History, in fact, is filled with cars and trucks that have carried with them not just passengers, but the opprobrium of their critics or persecutors. VW’s new Beetle – Girl’s car. The Mini, especially in convertible form – Gay. Camaro equals questionable hair decisions, while buying a Buick used to mean you were old, no matter how many candles there were on the cake.
Not just cars carry negative associations – consider Wine Coolers for a minute, would you be seen sucking down a Bartles and Jaymes Tropical Mango today? Of course not, and by the same extension, there are probably cars that you wouldn’t be caught dead in, or consider those that are caught to be of lesser stature for doing so. If that’s the case, which car or truck has the worst stigma today?
Image source: [Cracked.com]
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<img src="http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6213/6297507994_a7b5a9fc0b_z.jpg" width=550>
"Too poor to afford a SUV?! Bwahahahaha" – The Rubes.
That wagon rocks! What's it doing in this thread?
All wagons have a stigma in the US. He's just using that as his example picture.
I think that's declining.When Minivans came out large family wagons had stigma. Then minivans caught the stigma and SUV's caught on. By this time wagons were almost dead. Then the gas crisis hit and SUV's caught the stigma, and now Wagons (especially little ones with truncated cargo areas) are coming back.Besides, that wagon is too cool for me to let it go undefended!
True as that may be, real wagons do still carry a stigma in the US. Hopefully the public will see the error of its ways, but right now, there is still a stigma.
Manufacturers are classifying things as wagons again. The marketers would never have done that a few years ago. Acura, Audi, BMW, Dodge,Hyundai, Mercedes, Subaru, Toyota, VW, Volvo all offer wagons. Even Cadillac has a wagon. Nissan considers their Cube a wagon. You may be right, there may be some pockets of stigma left, but it's no longer a dead segment. As the segment rises, the stigma will fade.Of course I'm just going on like this because that pic was awesome. I want that wagon.
It's on eBay right now …
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V…
wow. 11 grand and 3 days to go on a 71 datsun. It is a sweet wagon. Wonder how much it'll go for.
Indeed, this was my point. Wagon's are awesome to us, and they should be awesome, regardless, but your typical commoner thinks they have the stigma of lameness.
<img src="http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p129/BOYRACER1684/miata.jpg" width="500/">
Yeah, that was going to be my reply. And then I was going to add that I know eight guys who have or have recently had a Miata, and all of them are straight as an arrow. In fact, at least two of them are "players," and three are happily married. They all bought the car for its driving experience, not its image. So whenever I hear the gay Miata stigma, it's hard for me to picture.
I think the dividing line might be the transmission. Straight shift = straight. Automatic = gay.
The gay guy here at work had an automatic Miata. He replaced it with a SLK 320.
You may be right. And a proper roll bar (not just a "styling" bar) is a stigma remover too.
Aside from tires, the Hard Dog Hard Core roll bar was the first thing I bought for my Miata. It increases safety and chassis stiffness while decreasing both inappropriate and inaccurate comments.
Stupid stigma.
Last year when I hit the mid-life crisis, post-divorce era I looked at the Miata and the Solstice.
So bought the Mustang GT.
If I'm gonna be a stereotype, I'll go with the stereotype that gets me women.
Toothless redneck women who will sell your possessions for meth? Tee hee.
There's an awful stigma for almost everything. As long as you're happy with what you drive, eff the haters.
"I'll go with the stereotype that gets me women."
Yup, that's what I was going to say. That being said, I still want one. Public opinion be damned! A few of my friends like to remind me that only gay men and divorced women drive those. I mean I understand why. The Miata was designed to be the perfect combination of British roadster charm combined with Japanese reliability. Therefore people who love the idea of a cute little convertible in the vein of an MG or Triumph could buy one and never have to pop the hood or be stranded on the side of the road. But like the old Brits, the Miata has plenty of character for those of us who are straight as can be. Besides, if you are that worried about what people think about what you drive, then you probably aren't reading this anyway.
I'd have no problem driving a Miata because I'd be having too much fun to worry about what other people thought. Besides, I happily drove a CRX for ten years with no threat to my manhood.
There are perks to the stigma. I bet in the right neighborhoods you'll never have to buy your own coffee. Like how a straight friend was dragged to a gay bar and didn't have to buy drinks all night.
He's not gay…he's 'festive'!
It's a tie between the Porsche 911 and the Corvette. In their present iterations, both are astounding performers whose creators should hear applause every time they so much as walk to the shop for smokes and a gentleman's (or lady's) publication. Instead, these incredible vehicles are ranked so far up the douche-o-meter that owning one taints the buyer's lineage as far back as the last Ice Age and as far forward as commercial travel at light speed.
<img src="http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l26/paposalsa/Miscellanous/Corvette.jpg">
Any ///M falls into the same category.
Even the mighty Clownshoe?
<img src="http://0.tqn.com/d/menshair/1/0/d/4/-/-/blowout.jpg" width="300">
Sadly, an older version of this guy has probably soiled one that you want to buy.
<img src="http://images.drive2.ru/car.journal.photos/3800/000/000/007/7fb/88cb869e9e53a010-original.jpg" width="500/">
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Rooster_open_beak.jpg" width="500/">
Well said. That's 2,000 words worth of visual explanation.
Hah! Well done.
Hummer H2.
Pretty much any Hummer that doesn't have 4 guys wearing helmets and carrying automatic weapons.
Sad, because other than a really inefficient use of interior space the H2 isn't that bad. Actually supposed to be fairly competent off road. But I stand by my statement that more H2s have been made into limos than have been taken off road.
Yeah, not many get used for what they were made for. I'd still like to go boonie crashing in one, just to see how they are.
Any hybrid. The more outrageous the smug behavior of the owners, the better.
I'll keep that in mind the next time I tow my LeMons car with my fiancee's Highlander Hybrid
Hey! There are always outliers.
I like driving my wife's '02 RX300 on road trips. Damned comfy machine for that.
In fact, we're not going to take the 40' motor home to Florida in a few weeks…instead, we're packing her car, staying with a friend. The coach was primarily for kitty cat travel, but screw 'em, they can ride in the car, no problem.
Fortunately, they travel quite well.
You have a coach for your cats? Dude….
Nah…they just tag along.
We were going to use it this time, however, primarily for kitty travel. Then I came to my senses!
Hell, that was going to be $600 in fuel, at least, more than taking the car.
You fiend! Making them travel by car…
Man, you're just looking to start a fight.
The Greenies will post up that the Compensating Cowboys in P-ups and SUV's are the worst.
The Compensating Cowboys will post that the Greenies in their hybrids are the worst.
The Rice Boys will post up that Knuckle Draggers in their pony cars are the worst.
The Knuckle Draggers will post that the Rice Boys in their Japanese Coupes are the worst.
The Borings will complain about the Suicide Enthusiasts on Motorcycles
The Suicide Enthusiasts will complain about the Borings in their mid-sized sedans…
Minivan drivers will keep their mouths shut, because, well, we're in minivans…
You know what? You're right… I should try something…
I like your experiment.
"well, we're in minivans…"
We're in minivans….. *we're* in minivans….
We're….. ???
!
HEY! YOU JUST ADMITTED TO DRIVING ONE. YOU GET THE HELL OUT!
REAL men face their needs head-on and gets the vehicle most practical for their situation.
(Though I'd choose a lightly used Yukon XL. Those things are cheap right now!)
I have a secret love of minivans. they do so many things so much better than the rest of the 7 passenger vehicles out there. If I had the need for that space, I would get one without question.
I'll go further than 'the rest of the 7 passenger vehicles', minivans do more things well than anything else anyone here is driving. Are there better looking vehicles? Better handling? Better in snow or off road? Better for towing? Better MPG? Sure, but none of those will do anything else as well. And nothing short of a Sprinter is more roomy.
My Odyssey hauled 4×8 sheets of plywood, 40 some bags of mulch, our family of 5 + gear + 4 bikes + camper through the mountains of WV, 6 adults + weekend luggage 6 hours to Chicago, a pair of loveseats and all while delivering an average of about 20 MPG over it's life.
For better towing, I moved from the Ody to a Saturn Outlook SUV. I love the Outlook, but it's smaller inside, thirstier and handles worse than the minivan. When I load up for the annual Christmas pilgrimage, I will sigh, missing the vast space inside my old minivan.
Cheap to buy. Not so cheap to continue owning.
Truth be told, I love my MPV more than just about anything I've ever owned. It's roomy comfortable and quiet, it gets reasonable mileage, it's easy to get the kids in and out of, it can tow a decent trailer, it's cheap to fix, and it is as fun to slide around as my 305-powered '71 Chevelle was.
But you'll never win that argument with anyone who doesn't actually need a minivan, because you don't get a minivan unless you need one. Then once you have one, you shut up about it, because if they become popular, they'll become expensive, and less practical.
That last line is the ticket.
And these reasons are why I thoroughly enjoy when this question comes up. Stereotype followed by "Hey, not me!" followed by "Well, yeah, but this douche I found on Google images!" etc, etc.
Hours of entertainment!
Ford Excursion. Nothing else built by a car-maker makes a bigger statement about the mammoth SUV era.
I think the minivan still carries the worst stigma.
Maybe you fellow dealers can chime in with me, but every single time someone comes to look at a used mini-van on the lot, you can literally see their heart being crushed. I've sold everything from Corvettes, BMW, Wagons, CTS-V and now I'm moving Buicks (pretty soon they'll move me to the fry-o-lator)
Still, the one with the worst stigma is the mini-van. As soon as I hand the keys over to an unhappy customer, it's like a scene in a movie where everyone at the dealership stops and stares. Phone's stop ringing, the XM radio over the PA somehow makes a record scratching noise and dogs quit barking. The young couple that can't afford/want a new CUV take their keys and get the hell out of the dealership as fast as they can. They don't ask questions, they just go. As soon as they go over the curb, a housewife getting her Acadia or Yukon serviced sheds a tear in the service lounge.
You can just tell the young mother is really thinking about a "stuck" accelerator and that new insurance policy.
It's really bad.
Yes and no – I think that's a fairly American phenomenon. I mean, my experience is more limited to Chrysler's vans (both as attempted sales person and booth bro), but although there's a contingent that just will not drive a minivan (and pretty much refuse to talk any further about the matter), there's just as many people who adore the things. It might also help that it's not hard to get one for less than 20 grand (about the same money as a compact car).
I think that can be said for a lot of vehicles. I love the Corvette. For every one of me, there's a million that hate it and so on.
You're not kidding about the price. I agree that is what attracts so many people to the used minivans on my lot. Really you can get a very well equipped Chrysler T&C in great shape with leather, DVD, navigation, ass warmers and allllll the chrome for under $20K like you said. Add all that to an Acadia or Journey and you're suddenly looking at just under $30K.
Still, it does not please most people that have to buy one. I'd drive a minivan I guess.
When you mentioned the Chrysler T&C my mind conjured up the Chrysler TC and I got confused for a second.
"This guy sells TCs new? Is he a time traveler?"
Oh, hell, I'm talking new. Chrysler dealers around here are constantly advertising base Caravans for $19,995 – it's basic in a 2011 sense, but it's equipped roughly the same as my Civic which retails for about $18,000. But you're not wrong about the T&C – I would love one, even if I can't yet stomach the $40,000 asking price for a new one ($50k before rebates).
But the Canadian market is peculiarly rational, and not so peculiarly attached to cheaper, smaller cars. The Caravan's still one of our best-sellers, the Kia Rondo and Mazda5 sell strongly here, and we got the Orlando when Chevrolet deemed it not worth selling in the US. The Uplander did well also, again on the virtue of being one of the cheapest vehicles per overall volume.
I recently bought a Mazda 5 and we couldn't have been more excited. That being said, most people I know can't understand why I'm happy to drive it
The Mazda5 is a good handling vehicle! Does it make you feel better to lump it into the "MPV" category as opposed to "minivans?"
Selling Buicks? Isn't that one of the lower rings of Hell?
If you own a Ford Windstar (the Yugo of minivans), you'll need lots of antidepressants, and psychotherapy. The 3.8l head and intake gasket woes, and the crappy transmissions, are enough to turn one suicidal. Okay, may you'll need to add Abilify, too.
Hi, I'd like to trade in my mini-van
Oh great. What kind of van do you have?
2002 Ford Windstar.
$2
But it only has 29,000 miles!
Ok. So the head gasket typically goes out at 30,000 miles. sooooo…. $1 and I'll charge you more for the car you're buying to cover the costs of getting this off my lot.
My mom had a '98, and now my brother has it, and actually ours was a really good van. Only thing that really went wrong with it was when a mouse decided to live on the fuel pump. Maybe my family got lucky, maybe we're just the only people in the world to maintain it properly, but dammit that particular Windstar was a very good vehicle.
Ford would like to buy it back to know what went wrong during production that made it a "good car". They take this kind of thing seriously.
Hey, law of averages and whatnot, one of them had to turn out properly built.
Someone in your family got lucky, otherwise you wouldn't need the minivan.
I'm here all week folks!
Once my sister asked my dad, "Why did you have six kids?" My dad replied "Everyone's got something they're good at."
Things you don't exactly want to hear from your dad…
I don't know… These things tend to run in families. He could have told you the opposite.
3.8L V6 + AXOD transaxle = worst powertrain combo evar.
I was a tech at a Ford dealer for 3 years and it got to the point that I could practically change out a Windstar transmission with my eyes closed.
Plus, this…
http://consumerist.com/2011/02/recalled-windstar-…
Huh, that's an interesting predicament. Sounds just like the old Nissan vans back in the 1980s.
We can also add the rear twist beam breakage problem (mainly in Rust Belt states) that's killed at least one person, a young guy in Massachusetts. The recall had Windstars stacking up on dealers' lots, waiting for the part.
I've been hearing that the 3.8 is a horrible engine and personally haven't had that experience. My mom bought a 93 sable with the 3.8 (I assume it's the same engine – maybe that's my problem?) with 150k miles on it back around 2000. It towed our camper for several 600 miles round trip vacations early in our ownership, and was severely neglected when it came to oil changes, and just really did little to no maintenance work to it. We finally took it to the junkyard two summers ago with 230k. The rear springs were junk so it ate rear tires (see: pulled our camper), the a/c needed to be recharged every 3 weeks during the summer, and the engine had the notorious "low oil" light flicker that I believe meant the crank bearing were on there way out (like they had been for the past 2+ years). the final straw? coolant line burst, Mom continued to drive it to where she was going, and killed the water pump seals. The thing still drove on and off the trailer at the end of it's life too. Maybe the cracked head (that it had for the majority of it's ownership) preserved the headgasket?
…
<img src="http://autospotters.com/images/Chrysler/Crossfire/chrysler-crossfire-srt-6-268.jpg" width=500>
Ha ha ha ha ha, awesome!
I think we need a new rule where one gets a thumbs-down automatically from everyone when one posts a Crossfire. It'll be like Soviet history: if you burn enough books, it never happened.
I was just saying that the Crossfire has the stigma of an overzealous force of, uh, "enthusiasts" that monitor the internet for any mention of the Crossfire that might be negative or unsure to enforce their totalitarian domination of Mercedes based coupe… things.
In the end, they really are fantastic cars.
/trying not to scare them off, I'm batting a thousand so far
I totally got that and it makes for a great meme.
How about the hatchback? Sure, they seem to have a resurgence every decade or so, but think back to the 1980s – damn near every car it seemed like was either exclusively a hatch or available as one. Even beige mainstreamers like the Accord, Camry, Corolla, 626, etc., were available as a hatch. Then someone decided that all hatchbacks were Geo Metros and that was the beginning of the end.
Sad, considering that depending on the design, a hatch can be nearly as utilitarian as an equivalent wagon. Of course, I may be just a bit biased…
Hatchback FTW. This was mine yesterday.
<img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/382865_2617271564613_1639847359_2414963_824858579_n.jpg" width=500>
Holy crap! What are those going on? And *eight* tires?
LeMons car. Our car probably won't hit the track for another 6 months or so, but my hook up on tires is about to go away, so I decided to buy them now.
What's about to get (or got yesterday) eight new tires?
I also fall into the "hatchbacks are awesome" camp. The back of mine, on a typical autocross road trip: <img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2498/3677752108_a22a2d1f33.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="amplecargo">
Wow- that's my Christmas list there…
That's awesome. I had a Focus 3 door previously – truly a great car. But too small to pull my trailer.
You need a smaller trailer. Or less common sense. Maybe both.
<img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6511396191_eeabe2530c_z.jpg" width="500">
Hatchbacks are indeed useful.
Haha! That's awesome! The Europeans have it right – lawyers have ruined it for us here in the States. Identical cars that have 3000+ towing capacities in Europe have 1500 or less, or no towing at all here.
But my trailer, as trailers of this type go, is pretty small – 1350 lbs dry. I'm guessing the Focus could theoretically handle it, but I like a little bit of overkill in that situation.
<img src="http://hatchtopia.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/preview_downsized_0625011429.jpg">
Happily my MG came with a British manual, so those are the towing specs I use.
By the way, Hatchtopia looks like an interesting read.
Love that they actually have the balls to put the towing specs in there. I swear some US manufacturers hide it away like some sort of secret game.
Thanks! I've still got a few ideas in my head for new categories too, so hopefully it'll just get better with time.
I'll never have a car that isn't a hatchback for my daily driver again. So much more useful than anything else you can find.
<img src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/10/07/automobiles/600-ego.jpg" width="500"> Please reconsider.
Daily driver doesn't mean I can't have a sexy little Honda S600 for weekends and sexy fun times.
I feel exactly the same way – with the caveat that a small pickup could make the cut too. I've owned 3 hatchbacks and 2 Rangers and loved them all.
<img src="http://images.newcars.com/images/car-pictures/original/2010-Toyota-Corolla-Sedan-Base-4dr-Sedan-Exterior-Back.png" width="500/">
*signals to overtake
*gives wide berth
My god, stick a baby on board sticker in the rear window and you've got the bane of my existence when I was living in my old apartment.
It's the safe choice for safe people who drive safely!
<img src="http://www.cadillacpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2011-cadillac-escalade-hybrid-1.jpg" width="500">
When Toyota (of all people) mocks minivan ownership — while trying to SELL minivans — you know you've got a stigma there.
[youtube yPqenAw-gs0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPqenAw-gs0&feature=related youtube]
You just tricked me into watching a Toyota ad. Thumb up to you, sir!
She's hot.
She's attractive. Are you the husband in that picture at the end? Cool hand signs at the end there Mr. T!
Speaking of wagons, here's the feel-good story of the day:
Midlothian man reunited with beloved vintage car http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Midlothian-man-reu…
It's a '62 Dodge Lancer::
<img src="IMAGE%20URL" width="600">
<img src="http://media.wfaa.com/images/1213returned-car4.jpg">
He mentions an intake manifold and that the thieves didn't know what they had. I can't help wondering if he had been holding onto a Hyper-Pak 4-barrel slant-6 manifold, which must be very valuable to Mopar fans.
That was my thought too. An original hyperpak with matching exhaust is probably worth more than the car.
I know the article says 62 but unless it's got the wrong grille, that's a '61.
<img src="http://www.infotaxi.org/images/13008_3ce/Crown-Vic-Taxis.jpg">
The driver has BO.
<img src="http://sw.cs.wwu.edu/~barneta4/project1/police-car.jpg" width=500>
The driver has donut crumbs in his mustache.
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/98-07_Ford_Crown_Victoria.jpg" width=500>
The driver is wearing a hat and has the left blinker perpetually on.
Worse than that, the last one could be a TTAC reader or *shudder* contributor!
Murilee's fleet, ca. 2009.
<img src="http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/500x_BackyardMotorPool-MOZ-500px.jpg">
<img src="http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/280×280/9832066.jpg">
If it was a TTAC contributor other than miss Martin driving a Panther it would be a weird Lincoln coupe, or a Town Car going a million miles an hour on the shoulder while wooing the ladies with mad guitar skills and commenting on this thread on the phone
I thought they commented by typewriter…
Yes, i believe they use these
<img src="http://www.blogandbuysale.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Typescreen.png" width="500">
Wine coolers may be out, but keeping some Smirnoff Ice in the fridge ensures you die painlessly.
<img src="http://okfilm.com/images/cache/screen_image_281627.jpg?PHPSESSID=32e2ab8ec7708238b7c0610939ed71be" width="512">
SUV's.
You never see them here.
<img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i65/lilwillie_wi/Farm%20pics/th_DSC00675.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" >
Because they are always here
<img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i65/lilwillie_wi/Farm%20pics/th_102_5207.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" >
That first picture is a nice photoshop…
What movie is that?
<img src="http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNDI5MDU5MzQzMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNTY4MDk0Mg@@._V1._SY317_.jpg" width="180">
Evil Alien Conquerers!
I *knew* that was Diedrich Bader! He was also in Napoleon Dynamite (as the martial arts instructor).
Evil Alien Conquerors, apparently (I rely on my Google-fu).
<img src="http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/editorial_images/non_imported/flaming_lamborghini_small.jpg" width="600">
Mmmmmm… Weenie, er, Italian Sausage roast!
Last month I thought I found "Occupy FtWorth".
But it was just an aircooled VW car show.
<img src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m165/jmarlow1_2006/random%20carz/003dww.jpg" width="500">
You think you know me?!? You don't know me!
Whenever I see one of these <img src="http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/pictures/VEHICLE/2011/Toyota/2011.toyota.avalon.20330958-300×189.jpg">
or these <img src="http://www.theautochannel.com/media/photos/buick/1998/98_buick_park_ave_ultra.jpg">
or these <img src="http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/Marquis_40.jpg">
it is usually driven by someone who looks like this: <img src="http://troll.me/images/grandma-finds-the-internet/grandma-finds-the-internet.jpg" width="500/">
so I usually give a wide berth, especially if one of those newfangled traffic circles is involved.
For me, and I see it is a minority view, the cars I consider the most likely to be driven by people I don't want to know are 4-door coupes. There is something really wrong with someone who needs a big car that doesn't have room for passengers.
<img src="http://www.remarkablecars.com/lifted-trucks.jpg" width="500" />
driven by
<img src="http://www.dirtopia.com/w/images/thumb/7/7c/Flatbiller.jpg/220px-Flatbiller.jpg" />