Hooniverse Weekend Edition – Prepare for Hooniverse Panther Weekend Edition
It is a sad sad day, but the last Ford Crown Victoria rolled off the assembly line today, so I wanted to pay tribute to the Panther Platform with a special weekend edition here on Hooniverse. What I will be doing all weekend is highlighting some of the choicest Panthers that are currently for sale on eBay, Craigslist, Auto Trader, and the like. I will also do my best by pointing out all the highlights of the beloved Panther Platform, from the last Country Squire Wagon, to the forgettable Lincoln Mark VI. If you have any suggestions you want to see here, please say so in the comments. See you this weekend.
Related posts:
- For Sale: A 1977 Panther Six – One of Only Two Produced
- Hooniverse Mad Men Weekend – Betty Draper’s 1957 Ford Country Sedan, and One You Can Own!
- Hooniverse Weekend Edition – Videos You Must See via Hemmings and Vimeo
- Hooniverse Weekend Edition – The Very Definition of the word Malaise: The 1979 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham
- Hooniverse Weekend Edition – Sarah Palin’s Tour Bus isn’t really a Bus….
It is truly a sad day in the U.S. automotive world…No V8 RWD sedan is currently offered by any U.S. manufacturor…when was that last the case?
As has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere on the web, I can't believe a case could not be made for continuing the Panther and Ranger platforms as commecial grade offerings, similar to the London cabs still being offering to this day, IIRC.
Looking forward to this weekend and a total blast from the recent past.
Depending on one's definition of "offered" I'd say that was last the case in 1945. Sad indeed.
?Wha?
There was a hiatus in offerings for the U.S. civilian market during WWII.
Dodge Charger R/T and Chrysler 300C. Both RWD, V8-powered sedans. Built by an American company. (Currently under Italian ownership, yeah I know, Chrysler's still an American company.)
Ah, but those are manufactured in Canada.
So were all of the recent Panthers.
Ha! I shouldn't be so quick to comment on new cars.
Canada is in America.
Yup, but longrooffan was asking about U.S. manufacture. Still, in light of the shift to Canadian production noted by Devin, maybe the answer is considerably more recent than 1945?
Well, as patriotic as I'd like to be right now I suppose it's time to admit the CTS-V is still made in America. So you've got one RWD V8 sedan.
To repeat: Ha! I shouldn't be so quick to comment on new cars.
So, still 1945, then?
No, it's just our hat.
<img src="http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2009-Cadillac-CTS-V-6.jpg">
"Sup?"
<img src="http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2012-Dodge-Charger-005.jpg">
"I still count?"
<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JCmPq9RZtnA/TakBTWY7AOI/AAAAAAAABkk/FdxzVsnLRY8/s1600/2012-chrysler-300-front-side-view.jpg">
"Yeah, we totally do."
Though I suppose with the death of the STS it really is only those three.
I can't wait until the Caprice is out there at auction.
Holy Shit…I totally forgot about the CTS and the Chargers, especially the longroof versions…my sincere apologies to my fellow Hoons for this mistake….
I figured you were implicitly thinking in terms of the traditional body-on-frame construction; I know I was.
That was my original thought but then again, I am an old man and body on frame is the original V8 configuration I know the best….But then I can always be corrected by these young whippersnappers…Now Get Off My Lawn!!!
You think that's bad? I didn't even notice the total demise of U.S. production for this type of car (V8, RWD, separate frame), whenever that happened, as is being hashed out above in response to your original question.
You kids can stay on my lawn; just watch out for oil spots and wheel ruts. Oh, and let me know when you find any car parts or tools.
Do you define a sedan as a three-box configuration with A, B & C-pillars and principal volumes articulated in separate compartments for engine, passengers (featuring two rows of seats and adequate passenger space in the rear for adult passengers), and cargo?
<img src="http://findmycarparts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/07-11-Chevy-Avalanche-Rear.jpg">
Body on frame-check
V8-check
RWD-standard
Three box-check
A, B, and C pillars-check
Two rows of real seats and four doors-check
Enclosed, separate cargo area-check
I was renting cars pretty frequently last year when my job had me ferrying from LA to Bakersfield every other week. Since I got to know the guy behind the rental counter pretty well, the upgrades came a rolling. There's nothing finer that floating through the Grapevine in a brand new Town Car. I was surprised at how much nicer the TC seemed over the Grand Marquis that I ended up with the next time.
I rented a Town Car last month – no one at the rental agency really understood why. I loved the thing though, it felt imposing and special. I sort of want to try out a Grand Marquis de Sade though, just for the sake of comparison.
Both Ford and GM build V8 RWD sedans,wagons, utes etc they just arent available in the US you guys like your understeering FWDs
Australia, huh? Had any cars confiscated under the anti-hoon laws lately?
By the quality of the writing, I'd say Tasmania specifically.
Though the Australian Ford sends its power to the correct set of wheels, its decline in sales makes me wonder how long it'll be till the "One Ford" philosophy that's brought Ford USA the Fiesta and Focus eventually means the
wrongfront-wheel-drive Taurus takes the Falcon's place in Oz.Well, they're not available to the general public. Yet. We're getting the Caprice for police duty, so I assume they'll filter their way into the used marked in a few years. I'd hope they'd just hang on to it as the Impala replacement (with production on this side of the Pacific), but I doubt that'll happen.
<img src="http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy74/crinklesmith/Cars/DSCF0271-1.jpg?t=1316138049"/>
My DD and I are eagerly awaiting the promised plethora of panthers.
While it is definitely the end of an era here, we have to face the fact that the Panther platform has been totally outclassed for private and family car duty. Sure, it made a good taxi, cop car, and livery car, but when compared to more modern competitors as a daily driver, it came up short. I have driven a fair number of Panther cars and I know their vices and virtues. Just for grins, I compared a 1994 Crown Vic against an H-body FWD 1994 LeSabre:
Size: The CV is 12" longer, 3.5" wider, and around 500-600 pounds heavier. The CV has 3 more cubic feet in the trunk.
Interior: Both similar overall, but the Ford has 3" more hip room while the Buick has 4" more rear legroom.
Performance: Probably a tie. The Ford has more power, but the 3800 is torquey and the Buick is lighter. Later LeSabres had 205 hp.
Fuel economy: In 1994, the EPA rated the CV as 18/25 and the Buick at 19/29 mpg. A reasonably-driven LeSabre can get 30 mpg or better on the highway – that 3800 is efficient.
Ride and comfort: Both cars are pillow smooth on the highway. The Buick is better composed and quieter over rough spots.
Handling: The Buick is somewhat better – less boat-like, more direct steering. It won't love it, but it can be tossed around. Both cars understeer. The CV with standard suspension gets really sloppy in corners.
Repairs: Both cars are basically reliable and can readily be fixed by any mechanic in America. The Buick had some tranny, sensor, and intake manifold issues. The CV had some electrical and suspension/steering recalls.
Towing: Properly equipped, the Buick could tow 3,000 pounds, the Ford 5,000. Advantage Ford.
Tunability: The Ford has a big advantage in that any Ford V8 can be stuffed in and that it's RWD. The best way to go in the Buick is to drop in the supercharged 3800.
So even by 1994, the Crown Vic was in real danger of becoming outclassed by newer cars for its mission has a family hauler. Now people will fuss that the GM H-cars were FWD. Like that was going to make a real difference in a family cruiser. The gap widened in following years. The 2005 RWD LH Mopars completely embarrassed the Panther as far as vehicle dynamics. I know that the Panther was the champ for fleet duty, but that's primarily out of familiarity and parts interchange these days.
The day of the traditional live-axle RWD BOF V8 sedan has ended. Go ahead and reminisce – it was a long tradition after all – but I will shed no tears.
You're probably right Tony, but at the end of the day, there's nothing like a ride in my Caprice. No Le Sabre( `97,) no Park Avenue (`87,) or LHS (`96) can compare to the ye olde RWD BOF V8. For you, that's a good thing. For me, it's a sad day.
You say that there's nothing like a ride in your Caprice, but in all seriousness, what does the Caprice actually do in day-to-day driving that the Buicks can't do, besides invoking feelings of nostalgia? No snark intended. I really want to know, because the only thing I get from a late-model RWD BOF is a sense of diminishing abilities compared to what more modern cars offer.
To be honest, I can't come up with a good reason to tell you, Tony. I still got the same feeling when I test drove a `05 GM LS last year, and to date have owned five B/C/D bodies plus four A/G bodies and all of them had a similar feeling. My aunt's Le Sabre is nice, but it's just not the same. The best answer I can cobble up is nostalgia, because as you said, as soon as you start looking at things objectively, these dinosaurs lose their edge quickly.
I love the B-bodies too, throughout the period where both GM's and Ford's downsized fullsizes overlapped, they were the superior car, and in a lot of ways, other than the fact that they're old, the last ones are still better to drive than even the newest Panther.
That said, I'm not convinced at all that BOF is the be-all-end-all of ride quality. Sure, the ride on my Vic was pillow-soft when the suspension was stock; smooth but not refined-smooth. Start adding stiffer shocks and swaybars and the ride becomes decidedly pickup truck-like.
One real advantage these cars have is for hauling. Especially the wagons. The B-body wagons have something like 100 cubic feet of cargo space and can tow 5000 pounds. Not bad for a car with pretty damn respectable performance that'll do mid-20 mpgs all day at 75mph.
Even with my Vic, I've been amazed at the amount of stuff it can haul without breaking a sweat. I don't even have the self-leveling air ride, just the standard H-D police springs. I've used my car to move a couple times, fitting an apartment's worth of stuff in the back, and the rear of the car doesn't droop an inch. No need to worry about the steering becoming light like you do when weighting an FWD car to the brim. I also have 3.73 gears and dual exhaust and could tow 5000 pounds no problem if I ever wanted to.
I do like the Buicks. A lot. I got to borrow a Park Ave for an extended period of time and LOVED it. Now there's a FWD fullsize that actually feels like a legit fullsize – none of the stupid space-robbing interior and exterior "styling" enhancements of the new imposters. I guess if I had to say though, it didn't feel as utilitarian. I realize for the vast majority of consumers, that's a good thing, but I love the fact that I can ask my car to go above and beyond typical family sedan duties and it will take it all in stride, while STILL being very comfortable for long highway hauls.
That was kind of my point. I have a low-mileage '94 LeSabre as a daily driver. It's silky smooth and quiet. The seats are nice, wide split power benches. The interior room is massive both in feeling and reality. The drivetrain is smooth and refined. The shifter is on the steering column where it belongs. The dash is Classic American horizontal with no console or center stack. The HVAC is spectacularly good. Cruising on the interstate at 70 mph is like piloting a big blue cloud. It can be fixed cheaply anywhere (I'll admit it's a little harder to self-service). So I have just about all of the BOF V8 virtues in a package that's tidier in size and weight, has better over-the-road manners and handling, is easier to park, and gets much better fuel economy. I don't tow, so that's not an issue with me.
The one thing that the Ford and GM BOF cars had over the GM FWD biggies was a station wagon. I think Ford made a big mistake when it dropped the Panther wagon for 1992.
From what I understand, the '03+ models addressed some of these issues. More power and redesigned suspension with rack and pinion steering (I can only think of a few other cars that made it past 2000 with recirculating ball steering).
I was never a fan of the way my '97 CVPI handled. Always felt like it was tipping over or that the rear of the car was balanced on a big beach ball. Power was pretty lackluster. But it was a great cruiser and very comfortable.
The P71 suspension is not that much of a handler once you take all the equipment out of the trunk. Particularly the 97 and older. The P71 suspension lifts the car about 1" vs the standard suspension. The springs are very stiff, the sway bars are small, the steering is the quick ratio box but it's overboosted. They were designed to drive over standard curbs, lane dividers, through medians ect w/o getting high centered or bottoming out. The sway bars are small to improve articulation. However throw 300lbs of radio equipment and misc junk in the trunk and your ready to chase the Duke boys through Hazzard county's worst back roads.
The HPP cars of every gen are far superior handling stiffer front springs than the base model, stiffer air bags than the stand alone air suspension, bigger sway bars, variable assist quick ratio steering box and in most years a 1/2" lower ride height than base suspension and 1 1/2" lower than a P71, Give it an actual road and a HPP car will run away from a P71.
I hate to admit it, but I think I speak for many of us to say that the biggest reason I'll miss the Panther is because my fretting about oncoming traffic will no longer be limited to recognizing one of these…
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/NDHP_Crown_Victoria.jpg/800px-NDHP_Crown_Victoria.jpg" width="500">
Now I have to worry about a Dodge like this
<img src="http://i54.tinypic.com/r0um4n.jpg" width="500">
or a Chevy like this
<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4931753587_1e1d95cd89.jpg">
or eventually a Chevy like this
<img src="http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/news/car/09q4/2011_chevrolet_caprice_ppv-car_news/gallery/2011_chevrolet_caprice_ppv_28police_patrol_vehicle_29_photo_42/3064784-1-eng-US/2011_chevrolet_caprice_ppv_1_cd_gallery.jpg" width="500">
or eventually either of these Fords.
<img src="http://www.lincah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2012-Ford-Police-Interceptor-and-Sedan-Front-Angle-View-588×392.jpg" width="500">
Add to those all the various GM & Ford SUVs that state patrols are using for
revenue enhancementspeed enforcement.Around here the Tahoe has recently became a favorite, particularly among those depts that had been buying Chargers.
Yeah, we have lots of (often unmarked, to boot) Explorers, which to say the least is unnerving.
No doubt. I made mention elsewhere on the internets yesterday that the years fo practice I put into memorizing the profile of Crown Vic headlights in my rearview mirror will now have to be unlearned, and replaced with the nearly impossible memorization of half a dozen new, more amorphous front ends. Hopeless.
Used to be that you look for the big, American car with bargain-basement trim – instant cop giveaway.
Not necessarily the case in Phoenix.
<img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ytx3j8nY5uk/Tmp7FY-bnFI/AAAAAAAAAn8/SX6A45TCW90/s800/IMAG0046.jpg"width=600>
Whoa… Are they using former drug dealer whips?
No idea. But it's not the only time I saw blinged-out cops there. This time, I had been honing my camera-fu, and was able to get a good shot.
I've got nothing against Panthers. I actually like 'em.
Bring it on, First and IH weekend and now a Panther weekend heaven for this Hoon.
It is a sad sad day that's for sure. Ford missed the boat in 03 spending all the money on the chassis and not spending any money on the body or doing anything significant to the engine and/or trans. It would have cost pennies per unit to engineer the few different parts needed to slip the the V8 2wd Explorer 5sp auto in there and since the 5sp is really just a 3sp w/OD the per unit cost would have been minimal too. The 06 Explorer's 292 hp 3v V8 would have also easily slipped in with minimal mods. There were minimal differences between earlier Explorer and Aviator 2v and 4v and their counterparts developing the same hp and tq as in the Panthers so it shouldn't have taken much. Maybe a new upper intake and exhaust manifolds.
So the final Crown Vic is going to Saudi Arabia? That's an abomination!
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/16/last-ford-crow…