Hooniverse Asks- Should BMW Ditch the Straight Six?
BMW hasn’t always manufactured straight sixes, but much like what happened for Jaguar, the Bavarians have become identified with that perfectly balanced engine form, and in fact has become one of the last to champion it. Many of BMW’s competitors, including Jaguar, have abandoned the inline six for V8s or – if continuing a sextet of combustion chambers – organizing them into a vee formation.
There are lots of reasons why a straight six is better than a V6 – it’s innately balanced, there are fewer separate mating joints making for less opportunity of gasket failure, and it can sound amazing. A V6, on the other hand, is one of the most compact of engine designs making it applicable for both longitudinal and transverse applications, and that plays into one of its major strengths over its inline brothers. Current safety standards in Europe require sufficient room between the hood and any immovable engine parts to allow for deformation in the off chance that a pedestrian decides to parkour-fail there.
All that makes you wonder if BMW – still carrying the torch for the inline six – will soon adopt a V formation for their engines like. . . well, everybody else has. Mercedes long ago replaced theirs with V editions, as have Jag, and Aston Martin long ago gave up their DOHC sixs entirely for V8s and 12s. Is the BMW six so good that switching would lose an intrinsic part of the car’s innate BMW-ness? Or, should the Bavarians just get with the program?
What do you think?
Image source: [BMWBlog.com]
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I want to say no, but all good things must come to an end sometime.
NOOOO
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Volvo (?!?) still sells some straight sixes.
The I-6 days are probably numbered. The most BMW of all their cars, the M3 has had I-4, I-6, and V-8 engines. BMW probably just doesn't see it as that big of a deal to keep I-6 engines.
For a while I had an all I-6 fleet of 3 vehicles: F-150 with 4.9L, Trailblazer with Atlas I-6, and BMW Z3 with S52.
That being said, I don't have a problem if they replace them with V-8s or even I-4s, just not a V-6. I have a theory, that for an engine to sound REALLY GOOD there needs to be an even number of cylinders per cylinder bank.
I dunno, I drove a late-model Jetta with the I5 recently, I was surprised by how good that sounds.
I was going to post a response to this, and then I spent ten minutes watching videos of Vipers pelting around tracks instead.
I don't know if I'd say it sounds "good," but I sure want one now.
I'd say one Viper sounds like two really angry UPS trucks. A V-10 might sound mean, but a V-8 or V-12 is sweet music.
Yeah, I don't agree with that, the Volkswagen VR6 sounds amazing.
The VR6 is pretty much a straight six, they even made a 5 cylinder version.
No. Long live the everyone in a line six!
Of course they shouldn’t abandon it, although they probably will. The turbine smoothness of an inline six provides a rush that cannot be beat. But I am sure that some focus group will tell BMW that 80% of their drivers… sorry, buyers, don’t know what different configurations of engines mean and therefore justify the switch to an easier to package engine.
I think the days of auto manufacturers having a "signature" engine is probably coming to an end, as sad as it is. That's progress, I reckon.
I respectfully disagree.
Ford brought back the 5.0 and is putting a signature Eco-Boost motor into anything that will have it.
Chevy will always have an LSx block in something.
Fiat is Multi-Airing everything in its lineup.
Chrysler is shoehorning a Hemi into everything.
Subaru is keeping the flat four alive and boosting it to the heavens
Porsche will put its flat six into any of its 2562353 special edition 911s
VW utilizes its oil burnerTDi across the line up
<poof>
But I see tons of BMWs for sale on Craigslist with V-6 engines…..
Lots of Hondas and Toyotas with "V4s" too!
The world needs more I-6's, not less. And some of those sixes should be slanted!!
And carbureted!
Wankel!
Flathead!
A million years from now, when radioactive cockroaches remain as the only living things left on the planet, they're going to be driving around in cars powered by LBJ-era slant sixes.
Two stroke!
Nah, with a two-stroke, V8 is the way to go.
[youtube lRKeuHyI0lw&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKeuHyI0lw&feature=player_embedded youtube]
Yea, it's been around a while, but it still makes me all wiggly inside.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other…
Wouldn't that be a V12? 'Six on one side, half a dozen on the other…' Or did I read your comment wrong?
Argh!
I was going to report this comment but couldn't decide whether or not it was out of line….
Despite your opposition, it's good that you kept the complaint to yourself. Perhaps he'll reciprocate.
Yes, I'd rather not spark something. I haven't fancied myself a boxer in years.
On the one hand, it should be the V8 that's the more endangered BMW engine configuration. As we continue to miniaturize powerplants, we might expect a return to the days where the straight-six is the big engine in BMWs. On the other, Mercedes sells substantially more S65s than S63s. That's not a typo, that's China. I worry that six-cylinders will remain the midrange, be wrongly portrayed as nothing to get excited about, and finally collapse in despair into a V.
No way. Keep the inline!
I bought a Jeep again recently and went with an '06 to get the newest I could with an I-6.
Luckily it has the pedestrian safety thing taken care of, too.
<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0W54Iom_MMQ/TjbABB_mAWI/AAAAAAAAAHA/WOhObI0E5c0/11%252520-%2525201.jpg">
I'm JeepyJayhawk, and I approve this message.
ELCO, that's in my neck of the woods.
I'm very near these guys.
<img src="http://hotspotvibe.com/stl/images/blog/0//schlafly-bottleworks.jpg">
Drove an old WRX, then rode in a slower, much less powerful BMW 323 and had an epiphany. BMWs are still too expensive for me, but I will never again judge an engine on power rating instead of character.
In-line 6's are perfect. Not only can they offer smoking performance, but extreme durability to boot. I, for one, would hate to see them go away.
Let me answer this three ways:
No!
NO!!
NO!!!
What is BMW-ness anymore, anyways? The current Jetta proves that no one gives a crap about the engineering, it's price, size and looks that matter.
Should they ditch the straight six? I like that configuration… the buying public doesn't really care… and their cars would probably be much better as cars used for going to places if they did go to a Toyota sourced hybrid 4. So I'm going to say that it really doesn't matter one bit.
There is an engineering case to be made against the I6, its smooth character notwithwstanding. Spanning six cylinders is pushthing the limits of a camshaft's ability to resist twisting, as well as that of the crankshaft. This become an issue espescially in things like endurance racing, where the engine is being wrung out at its limits for hours on end. The V6 configuration, being much more compact front-to-back, doesn't suffer as much.
That said, I do love the I6 and will be sad to see it go. But it's not as if it's a flawless design being killed by The Man.
Does a passenger car I6 suffer any camshaft problems that are actually noticeable to a normal driver when not endurance racing?
It can, but in practice most production cars have stiff enough cams and light enough valve springs that the twist issue is minimized. However for manufacturers like BMW, who put a lot of emphasis on their racing pedgree, it can still be a consideration if your racing series of choice mandates close-to-production engines.
I definitely believe what your saying, but just curious as to why Audi would choose to run a V12 & 10 in endurance races?
As the bore spacing increases, you can get crankshaft whip, as well. That was a problem for pre-WW2 big sixes, and one of the reasons for all the undersquare (long stroke, small bore) inline engines of the era.
<img src="http://www.washington.edu/news/archive/images/newsreleases/2009/October/20091015_pid52704_aid52703_harrell33_w600.jpg" width="350">
The L-head six in my Plymouth (3 1/8" bore x 4 3/8" stroke) and I are just fine with that arrangement, thanks.
mercedes started to lose their way when they replaced the M103/104 motors with a V6 in the interests of packaging efficiency.
as bloated as newer BMW's are i would still hate to see them go down the same path.
As Mercedes, Jag, and the rest have discovered, Joe Consumer doesn’t care. Personally, I say keep the straight six and teach pedestrians to stay the hell out of the way.
<img src="http://www.rider-and-road.com/Timelines/timeline%20images/1982_v45_sabre%20.jpg" width="500">
I'm surprised more V4s aren't showing up in cars, especially in A-segment cars where their very compact dimensions would be a packaging plus. A V4 with 90° vee angle with a 180° crankshaft (in this context, a common crank pin for the left and right pairs of cylinders, with 180° offset between them), offers perfect primary balance and better second-order balance than an inline four — without the need for a balance shaft (but still with more rocking couple than a straight six).
But for that matter, I am surprised that the configuration has not made more of a dent in the motorcycle market in the years since liquid cooling make them practical.
I agree; in fact I can't think of a V4 powered car not made by Saab, and they didn't even use them in a transverse configuration. It is a little more troublesome to route intake and exhaust plumbing, but I can't think anything else holding the configuration back.
I think the disadvantage compared to an inline four is cost: two separate heads, four camshafts (If it's DOHC) two cam chains and tensioners, etc.
Ford had two different V6s, but they were both 60-degree engines, so they had uneven primary balance and were pretty rough. Lancia had a sorta-V4, but it was very narrow angle (like 12 – 15°?) with a single head, like the VR6. All of them, to my knowledge, had separate crank pins for each rod, although I don't know what the spacing was on them. The Soviet ZAZ made an air-cooled V4, but I have no idea what the vee angle was.
I don't know that anybody has ever used Honda's original V4 bike engine specs (90° vee, two-pin 180° crank) in a car motor…which kinda floors me, with all the inherent elegance of it.
The SAAB V4 was made by Ford of Germany (the Taunus V4) and was also used in several Fords. There's also the "other" Ford V4, the Essex V4 from Ford of England.
That should provide enough fodder to enrage any fans of the Essex V4, who seem to think of the Taunus engine as the "other" one.
I knew the Taunus was related Ford's Cologne V6, but I'm not conversant enough with Euro Fords of that era to know which cars it came in. Hell, I only know of the Taunus because of the Sonett III.
Weren't there some early 90's Subaru's that used V4's?
Only if you count a 180 degree v angle.
Erm, where’s the login button?
Anyway,
After a life of owning raggedy, fire-breathing, oil-spitting hotrods and rev-happy Hondas, my Dad recently became enamored with BMWs. He was all for a 3 series wagon, which made me do a little happy dance, but ended up with a late-model X-3. It’s rocking the 3-plus liter inline six mill. Honestly, I found it to be positively sleepy. Dreary even. So much so that I’m wary of any inline six now. Smooth? Yes. Boring? Positively.
However! I have yet to drive an M3 equipped with a more raucous version of the engine. Or an old Jag with that rumbly 3.8-liter legend. Or this:
[youtube http://youtu.be/KnbmW5kz9i0 youtube]
http://hooniverse.com/2010/09/01/antipodean-oddities-the-unholy-valiant-charger-e49-six-pack/
You can probably chalk up the boring characteristics of that particular engine/vehicle combination to a heavy flywheel and comfort inspired transmission design.
Ok, soooo
Straight engines rule etc etc
However, WTF happened to Hooniverse? How do I log in? Why no more picture or video posting?
<poof>
I post a reply, the website changes, I am now logged in and pics/video show up again?
Meh. It would be another 15 to 20 years before such a decision would affect anything I'll put in my garage.
The latest BMW I'd consider putting in my garage [if I had a garage...] is the 700, so in that sense, problem solved!
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Trying to embed this awesome video, but the system tells me it can't parse the URL.
http://youtu.be/KnbmW5kz9i0
my headphones and I approve.
It's hard to pretend to care anymore. Inline 6s are my favorite engines, but it doesn't really matter what is under the hood of an ugly, run-flat tire equipped, automatic transmissioned, video game dashboard emphasizing piece of fashionista garbage built to chase the leasing dollars of posers.
[slowclap] well said [/slowclap]
I love my straight six BMW
[youtube dpYskyc3XOk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpYskyc3XOk youtube]
jus sayin
nice run!
You seem to have a frightened child stuck in your grille. You should probably do something about that.
LOL…my dead power steering pump
check it…more straight six goodness[youtube rVkY8oA3RlE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVkY8oA3RlE youtube]
Glory, glory hallelujah, that roar keeps rolling on!
i think there is still one other inline six engine used in a performance car. That would be in the Australian Ford Falcon. Then again, I might be wrong about that as it has been a few years since I read up on the antipodean Falcon.
I don't think the normal group of BMW drivers would notice if the I6 disappeared. Well, not the grpup in my area anyway. Most people in SEPA purchase BMWs as a step up from a civic. However, part of me hopes that if/when they do try start selling less because of a loss of resale value because of enthusiasts. Kind of like how you can get a JK wrangler for less money used then a TJ.
Ford Australia still utilises an inline six in its Falcon range. 4.0 DOHC with a 310kW Turbo option,
BMW's global strategy has got to be focused on 4 cylinder engines, not 6. It's where efficiency laws and market trends will push them whether they like it or not. And say what you will, the 120d/320d engine is pretty good, and probably a smarter buy than the 325d already. I don't think that a V6 is entirely likely, as displacement will remain low in the interest of efficiency, and thus the inline configuration will never get any bulkier.
That isn't a complete rejection of BMW's heritage as the groundbreaking little 2002 was only available from the factory with an inline-Four.
Rumours of the I6's demise at BMW are to say the least premature. Look at the 3.0litre with various numbers of Turbos is thriving.
It is the engine that's killing the V8 at BMW at the moment. Downsizing. There'll be no V8 between the I6 and the China and Arab.Market V12's long before anyone gets round to killing the I6 off.
Nissan swapped the legendary RB26 inline six in its JGTC cars for '04 with the VQ30DETT V6 – it could be mounted farther back in the chassis, improving weight distribution and packaging up front. There are also those who claim a V6 serves better as a stressed element in a unibody chassis.
I don't care, though. The I6 is one of the few things BMW has left to respect. Keep it.
I guess it also didn't hurt that the VQ is aluminum and the iron RB weighs eight tons.
Almost every single Big Truck that you have ever seen built after '68 has an I-6 diesel (Cat tried a V-8 for a bit, but it never caught on).
BMW actually just launched a NEW inline six. It's in the K1600 motorcycle.
Ya, and America should abandon the Greenback.
no way great motor in a great car!
I wouldn't be happy about it as I own a BMW with a melodious M54 3.0 liter inline six.
But when push comes to shove, a lot of V6s are aurally pleasurable and have nice power and torque. The Lexus and Infiniti V6s are pretty nice, to say nothing of the Alfa Romeo V6s we don't receive here in the USA, and I'm sure BMW wouldn't botch that engine design in the way that Mercedes has with their laggard, indifferent normally aspirated V6s since 1998.