Encyclopedia Hoonatica: Non-Traditional Automatics
Image courtesy About.com
We all know about the famous PRNDL shift pattern, first adopted by the Fordomatic and in the wake of Nader’s antics becoming ubiquitous, but there are many other ways to not shift for yourself. In the interest of leaving ALL of the low-hanging fruit on the tree, I’m not going to give even one example of an alternative shift pattern. And so the first couple are likely to be simple. Then, I think, your brain may begin to overheat. Here are the rules – the transmission itself must be considered an automatic (i.e. involving a torque converter, and not employing clutches), so no automated manuals, preselector transmissions, CVTs, or DSG boxes. After that, all bets are off. For example, acceptable answers may encompass shifters attached to automatic transmissions that had to be shifted manually and cars which came from the factory with third-party shifter mechanisms. Confused? Good. Excited? I know I am.
So put your brain in D; damn the torque converters, full speed ahead!
DIFFICULTY: Medium – this one will get exponentially more difficult after the obvious ones are taken.
Related posts:
50's-60's era Mercedes-Benz automatics weren't PRNDL's http://www.heckflosse.nl/wheel4.htm
Excellent. A+
Many moons ago a friend of mine had one of the first gen Civics with the 2 speed Hondamatic. I think the 2nd and 3rd gens had variations of the same tranny available.
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/1978-1979_Honda_Civic_3-door_hatchback_01.jpg/800px-1978-1979_Honda_Civic_3-door_hatchback_01.jpg" width="500">
I'm confused on the guidelines but I think this fits.
can we count the VW “Autostick”
<img src="http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h153/mstencel1970/AutoStickArtREV.jpg”>
According to the rules, stated, no.
Aw, come on. I think it deserves to be included simply because of the badging.
<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2335/2113893045_f30e95941b.jpg">
Ah yes, the Volkswagen ASS. That used to be a pretty common joke.
My has stubbornly refused to drive anything with a clutch for decades (my first car had to be an automatic, just in case she needed to drive it – an injustice I've only recently recovered from). But her '69 Bug had the Automatic Stick Shift and she absolutely loved (and despised her Powerglide-equipped '65 Corvair Monza ragtop-go figure).
So I dig the semi-automatic for making self-shifting palatable for people who'd otherwise never consider it. And it beats the hell out pointless gimmicks like the Chrysler Autostick. If it doesn't have a shift pattern, it's crap.
Autostick and its ilk aren't anywhere near a proper substitute for a manual transmission, but it's occasionally useful, between getting engine braking and overcoming economy-oriented transmission programming (if you're in a situation where you're forced to get an automatic).
You get a solid B+ for effort. But if you didn't just point out an awesome acronym, I'd have to point out that it don't count.
You're a harsh taskmaster. It gets a minus for having a clutch, but still gets a plus for having a torque converter as well. Oh well, it seems to be getting lots of mileage here regardless.
Let me go look at the behind-the-scenes and see if you've been
blue-balledblack-listed… Maybe you upset the Hoonitarian Gods. A sacrifice may be required. Do you have any sexy virgin family members you could contribute?Virgins? Heck, no. But there's a couple I wouldn't mind tossing into a volcano.
They're not being filtered, and they're not even showing up on the system at all; so it looks like it's something pre-server. Likely your web browser, they're notoriously fickle about letting things through, or picking and choosing whether they agree with what you're saying. It could also be a PEBKAC error, but I expect not, since you're here on Hooniverse. Perhaps you need to spend more time on AtomicToasters?
Thanks for checking. The weird part is that the posts show up on Hooniverse for a little while with pictures and all, then they vanish, so they are at least initially getting through. In fact, I see one vanished post under my IntenseDebate/people/tonyola listing that never made it into Hooniverse's pages. I've been using Chrome all along with no major system changes, and I have no problems making posts elsewhere, including J******k.
I would make more posts on Atomic Toasters if I knew I wasn't wasting my time with the comment problems.
I had one eaten at A-T today. I'd be happy to know the cause is technical difficulties and not my inability to meet their high commentarial standards.
Hooniverse's servers are powered by Lucas. You haven't posted any disparaging comments about English cars, have you?
Oops, my bad.
Since we're speaking about possible problems, I used to get a E-mail from IntenseDebate when somebody replied to my rambling comment and that doesn't seem to happen anymore……..Is it on this end? I am at the Bar after all…….
I still get the e-mails when someone replies. Just got a bunch for the comments about my posting problems.
Apparently your comments are tasty to Hoonibbles.
Hoonibbles just rolls right of the tongue, doesn't it?
Do Jags with the rotary shifter count?
<img src="http://images.myride.com/images/no-transform/myride/promotions/images/images/2009/2009JaguarXF/2009JaguarXFSuperchargedShifter400.jpg">
OK, I reread the question and I think I understand now.
I'm not certain I understand the topic, but if I am, then a Mopar pushbutton shifter with Park on a separate lever would count.
<img src="http://image.moparmusclemagazine.com/f/12269121/mopp_0903_05_z+1963_plymouth_fury+pushbutton_shifter.jpg">
As would a Pontiac his-and-hers shifter.
<img src="http://www.goodnotions.com/the_garage/gto/images/gto_shifter.jpg">
1983 Hurst Olds used additional levers for the lower gears.
<img src="http://image.carcraft.com/f/ZeusBigalo/7945421+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1983-oldsmobile-hurst-olds-not-only-do-i-have-thunder-but-a.jpg">
Those Hurst Olds shifters just make my head hurt.
The first time I saw a 'Hurst Lightning Rod Shifter' a few years ago I had figure out how the eff they worked. I know it is a drag set up but i question whether there was a performance advantage.
The shift pattern:
<img src="http://jestepp.tripod.com/shifter.jpg">
For some discussion: <a href="http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/gnx-fortunate-547/203983-hurst-lightning-rod-shifters.html” target=”_blank”>http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/gnx-fortunate-547/203983-hurst-lightning-rod-shifters.html
One lever lowers the blades, the other one switches the blades on and the third one moves the mower forwards or backwards, right?
Let me see if this picture will post
<img src="http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?s=52540e73f6386f826bb7aa7b21ecb6ca&attachmentid=563403&d=1230596261">
It was just so that the driver had control of the upshift with out worrying about slamming into the wrong gear.
Just, set them all down, launch and,
SHIFT 2nd
SHIFT 3rd (Drive)
SHIFT 4th (Overdrive)
Though this ultimately eliminated the prime advantage of an auto at the drags- consistency.
I was going to respond to pic #1, but pic #3 made me blank with "whoaaah".
Ok, I am embarrassed to say I've never seen that before.
I remember seeing them in old car mag ads and the like. I've never understood how they work but assumed I needed more hands to do it.
Maybe for the guy who thinks he has more to offer than he really does?
Ah yes. When you absolutely needed to believe that your TH200-4R was the same as a Lenco. I saw one of those go through the drive through as a young hoon working at Hardee's and remember thinking it was the coolest thing ever.
Some part of me still does.
You got it! It was your last image, the Hurst Lightning Rod shifter, that started this whole thing in my brain. I should have used this as an example. Meth is a hell of a drug. But a '83 Hurst/Olds would match my habit nicely, don't you think?
all current BMWs:
<img src="http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/07.x5.shifter.500.jpg">
The Mercedes Hydrak was an automated manual, but it included a viscous clutch similar to a torque converter. Sure, I'm walking a fine line here, but I like to live dangerously!
http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/maintenance/h…
It was used on the Mercedes Benz Pontons except 4-bangers.
<img width=500 src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Mercedes_Benz_Ponton_Coupe_Darmstadt.jpg">
Okay, I just had to delete three separate posts because I can't seem to comprehend what I read. I think I got the parameters down, now.
Not quite sure if this fits, by my first-gen Explorer is P R N OD D 2 1.
My ex's Prius has the weird joystick like in Andrew's BMW picture. She never knew if it was in gear or not.
I'm guessing you don't want pushbuttons but if you do you'll find them in lots of 60ish Chryslers and Ramblers. Here's a '62 Rambler Classic from Hemmings: <img src="http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/08/1962Rambler_02_700.jpg"> That's the one I grew up with.
<a href="http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2010/08/28/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1962-rambler-classic/” target=”_blank”>http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2010/08/28/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1962-rambler-classic/
I see Rambler was ahead of their time… they decided 11 wasn't enough and went all the way to 12!
Packard Ultramatic electro-pushbuttons from Ate Up With Motor’s flickr photostream:
and an Ultramatic PNHLR:
Can you please use Flickr's HTML code?
<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4338630254_ee71a8b586.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="1956 Packard Caribbean hardtop pushbuttons" />
I changed your comment to reflect the proper Flickr code and Ate Up With Motor's concerns about Flickr's terms of service.
Okay, thanks!
Toyota FJ.
<img src="http://image.trucktrend.com/f/11003859+w750+st0/163_0809_15z+2009_toyota_fj_cruiser+automatic_gear_shifter.jpg" height="540">
Yea, I know it's mostly just odd labeling, but it does let you choose more than one lower gear.
My mechanically-similar '05 4Runner had the same pattern. Only slushbox I've had with a gated shifter and, consequentially, the only one that didn't always want to slip past drive every time I put it in gear.
Also, I would like to meet the engineer or accountant who decided my '02 Civic's shifter should include D3 and 2, but not L, and punch him in the face.
No, this works. Boy that's a convoluted gate arrangement.
how about the edsel push button tranny in the center of the steering wheel
1965 Thunderbird. The pattern itself is only slightly nontraditional (two positions labeled "DRIVE" which act sort of like D2 and D3, with 'normal' drive indicated by the larger dot):
<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/5078979187_5e3b2c1d6d.jpg" width="500">
but, reading from left to right, "P.R. 'n drivel" strikes me as a refreshingly candid admission of the marketing forces behind most automatics.
(Image shamelessly lifted and cropped from AteUpWithMotor's photostream.)
The second drive positions on the Ford Cruise-O-Matic allowed starting in second gear, for use on slippery surfaces. Sort of a poor-man's traction control.
Contrast with:
<img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1291/4689846470_eb577ea54d.jpg" width="500" height="371" alt="1952 Pontiac Chieftain wagon quadrant" />
On the 1952-1964 four-speed Hydra-Matics, the D3 or "Drive-Right" (as opposed to "Drive-Left") essentially engaged the kickdown switch. It didn't actually lock out fourth gear, but it held it to the maximum allowable upshift speed, which was between 70 and 75 mph, depending on the car and rear axle ratio. Low range did essentially the same thing, allowing second to be held to its maximum safe speed. Both were handy for hilly terrain.
The Borg-Warner Flash-O-Matic had a similar feature. On my '63 Rambler, the pattern is PRN²D¹L. Putting the indicator on the ¹ starts you in first and the ² in second. I'll post a pic down-thread a bit later (after I take and upload it…)
The
GuideWiki has a fairly comprehensive entry on transmissions of this type. While I usually curse Ferrari for popularizing automatics in sports cars, Porsche was there 7 years earlier. They get a pass because no one thought it was "better". In truth, the Autostick in the Prowler was the first transmission I thought was awesome, though also the first transmission I gave any thought to. I didn't develop my love for the clutch and H-pattern before I learned to drive, and I'm not sure anyone will either. Manual is no fun in computer games, with insufficient control and aural feedback, and if so few learn to drive one in real life, fewer still will learn to love them.P.S. Throw in my usual answer about Aston pushbuttons, and I choose to ignore J-gates and D5, D4 etc. layouts as identical to PRNDL.
Do trucks and buses count?
<img src="http://www.orschelnremsons.com/pages/images/AutoShift400.jpg" HEIGHT="540">
Exactly what I was about to say. Who needs park?
I sense a "RH" backwards bus racing series in our future …
Jeep's got the CVT in the Patriot and Compass (along with the Dodge Caliber), which includes Autostick (any CVT with range selection is a little peculiar), and the available low-range on the Patriot.
I'm also thinking of the Citroen DS's semi-automatic (clutchless manual).
DS might fall outside the line. It's a fully manual tranny with clutch, it just gets actuated by hydraulics instead of your foot. And then there's the nice little gear stalk. I think it is oriented in such a way that the hand on top of the wheel can continue to hold the wheel and the Gauloise and still flick the lever for next gear with a spare finger. That way the other hand can continue to wave around expressively as you speak.
Really, nobody remembers the Ro80?
<img src="http://www2.uol.com.br/bestcars/carros/classicos2/nsu-ro80-3.jpg">
not only does it have a torque converter auto that is manually shifted, but also a rotary!
That's the one I was trying to think of!
I so badly want one of those NSU gems.
Not a new idea, even then. The last iteration of Chrysler's Fluid Drive transmission, Gyro-Torque, was a three-speed manual with a torque converter, and there were bus transmissions along those lines in the thirties. (That was also adapted for Buick's M18 Hellcat tank destroyer during World War 2.
<img src="http://i52.tinypic.com/rusldw.jpg" width="500">
Wheel loaders use a torque converter automatic transmission such as the ZF Ergopower line. Since the loader duty cycle involves frequent direction changes, the transmission is usually controlled with a forward/neutral/reverse lever with a rotating end which can be twisted (just like the wiper speed control on many cars) to choose the highest gear that the operator wants to use.
<img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/5bah08.jpg" width="500">
(From the Case 521E-821E brochure… the stalk on the left side of the column is the F-N-R lever)
Like a giant version of our aging Caterpillar forklift – there's only a single speed in each direction, but it's utilised the same way. It has a clutch pedal (that also depresses the brake pedal), but it doesn't do much anymore.
Thomas Built school buses on Freightliner chassis have pushbuttons:
<img src="http://www.schoolbuscentral.com/gallery/updates/aug05/images/th_08g.jpg">
Image from http://www.schoolbuscentral.com (Photo Gallery)
79-91 Crown Vic and Grand Marquis could be had in two flavors of 4spd auto shift patterns.
Civilian
<img src="http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5026/32409001vi.jpg">
To manually shift to 2nd, you do a "1-D-1 shuffle", Start in 1st, hit drive for second, back down to 1 to lock in 2nd gear.
Police
<img src="http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7641/bluesmobile008iz3.jpg">
i do the first-drive-first-drive shuffle in the lincoln all the time – that's what makes it my favorite automatic that i've driven (which isn't saying much)
The shuffle was also a common technique with the early three-speed Fordomatic. Ford didn't recommend it, but people did it all the time to get it to hold first and second longer.
Not sure where in this thread to reply, hopefully everyone scrolls to the bottom.
We're largely beyond the days of people's stuff getting caught in the filters (whitelisted most of you regulars), so it's a tech issue at this point. (Although, that reminds me I need to jiggle some switches over at Atomic Toasters).
This is a known issue with the Intensedebate comment engine. I've seen my own comments get eaten, then they come back like 2 hours later, or if I check from home versus <del>work</del>.
On a technical level, I think it has to do with the fact that IDC actually serves this whole comment frame from their servers via javascript. If there's some hiccup between us and them and your login, then it goes nowhere. There's like one or two things I'm thinking might be the problem.
I can say that the system is weirdly sensitive to cookies. Clearing anything from hooniverse.com and intensedebate, then logging back in can help.
<img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/desirable_layouts/10095341.jpg">
A long list of current Benz offerings have this arrangement:
<img src="http://eblog.mercedes-benz-passion.com/wp-content/uploads/400_459148_779642_4992_3328_89705605c2000_024.jpg" width="500">
Selection for backward, neutral, forwards, pushbutton for park and paddles for individual gear changing. All to make room for a cupholder on the console.
WTF, I'd confuse that for wipers, and I'm not nearly as senile as your average M-B customer.
Which reminds me of a funny story from some years back (speaking of old people, shifters, and senile, and stories, who doesn't like a good story; which reminds me I should tell you one):
I was waiting outside of a bank (reason lost to time) when an older fellow and his wife pull over at the curb (that's a kerb to you, for some odd reason) in a new Jetta. He parks, leaves the engine running, flashers on, and goes into the bank.
It would seem that the Mrs, who was elderly, and very small (you know how old people shrink) didn't like where the Mr. had parked for some reason (hydrant, too close to corner, etc…) and wanted to pull the car forward. She exited the passenger side, got in the driver's seat, spent 5 min adjusting so she could see out, and then tried to put the car in gear. She still couldn't see over the wheel.
Maybe the car was new, maybe they had traded a Grand Marquis for it (likely), but she could not figure out how to use the console shifter. First the right indicators came – ENGINE REVS, very puzzled/befuddled look- then the left indicators – ENGINE REVS, very puzzled/befuddled look – then the wipers – ENGINE REVS, more of same – then a lot of looking around and possibly some very un-old-ladylike words, indicators again, finally tried the console shifter and got it moving; a 5 minute game of "find the gear selector". When she pulled forward she managed to get it a good 2.5 feet from the curb.
The moral of this story is, and with all deference to the cars you flog, M-B is going out of their way to confuse their elderly customers which will result in not good things happening!
Too true! I'm 29, full-fledged senility hasn't hit me just yet, but yesterday I jumped out of a column-shift ML350 and straight into a floor-shift XC90 and immediately turned the wipers on.
Additionally, as I have got used to the MB foot-operated parking brake, I jumped into a Vauxhall Omega the other day and instinctively opened the coin-box by the drivers knee, exactly where the Benz has its brake release. Happens to the best of us!
1951 Chrysler Fluid-Matic
<img src="http://www.kitfoster.com/images/2008-11-15_FluidMaticQuadrantWeb-Large.jpg" width="400">
Anyone else noticing that finding decent images is harder than naming the examples on this one?
The 1958 Mercury Multi-Drive Merc-o-Matic with Keyboard Control:
<img src="http://www.thebigm.info/_ImagesAccessoryMultiDrive.jpg" width=500>
The big keys on the top row are the two driving ranges: "Performance" and "Cruising." Second row, left to right, is "Brake" (releases parking brake), "N-S" (neutral/start, I think), "H-C" (Hill Control), and Reverse. Park is the lever below the keyboard.
<img src="http://www.thebigm.info/_Images/AccessoryMultiDrive.jpg" width="500">
From <a href="http://www.thebigm.info/” target=”_blank”>http://www.thebigm.info/
thanks; for some reason the photo was there and then it disappeared.
I remember one time ID ate a Raptor. That was amazing.
Some pre-war MGs had a pre-selector transmission where you would change gears and the change occurred when the clutch was depressed. I'd love to try one out.
Sorry- no pics.
You're thinking of the Wilson preselector.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mulls/2776666961/
Similar were the Cotal preselector:
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3600.asp…
…and the Bendix Electric Hand, used in the Cord 810/812:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26262745@N08/4803310…
The standardization of the PRNDL pattern had nothing directly to do with Ralph Nader. Nader was describing a controversy that played out at the SAE in 1960-1961. As I understand it, it was precipitated by the introduction of the third-generation Hydra-Matic (the Roto Hydra-Matic), which once again used the PNDLR shift pattern introduced by the original Hydra-Matic. Oscar Banker, a transmission engineer who had designed a variety of bus transmissions, protested that the pattern was less safe than the PRNDL (since it potentially made it easier to shift accidentally into reverse), and wrote an impassioned letter to GM president Jack Gordon, asking why the new transmission didn't have the newer pattern. (Gordon's response was that GM had sold many, many transmissions with the existing pattern — at a bare minimum, 12 million units — and people were more familiar with it.)
This came to the attention of the federal General Accounting Office, which subsequently set new rules requiring federal fleet cars to have the PRNDL pattern, starting in 1966. Contrary to popular belief, this was not a regulation requiring all cars to have that pattern; it simply said that federal fleet buyers wouldn't buy any car that did not.
When GM introduced the new Turbo Hydra-Matic in 1964, it had the PRNDL pattern; it completely replaced the earlier Hydra-Matic and Roto Hydra-Matic by 1965 (at least in the U.S.; I think the Model 5 RHM may have remained in use in Australia and Europe a bit longer, but I don't remember). For 1965, Chrysler also dropped its pushbuttons. As far as I know, they weren't specifically included in the GAO ruling (which didn't require a specific shift mechanism, just a shift pattern), but their market research had shown buyers not used to them tended to shy away.
All of those decisions were made several years before Ralph Nader's book was published, so Nader was essentially describing a controversy that had already been resolved.
My Girlfriend drives a Chevy Equinox and its pattern goes like this
P
R
N
D
L4
L2
Its stupid that you can only switch from 4wd to 2wd on the shifter and you can shift out of 4wd in high gear…
Oh and I forgot my jeep which went as such
R
P
N
3
2
1
What jeep was that?
Postal?
Good work.
That could be anyone's hand, but because you referenced Captain Slow, you get a gold star.
I thought this one would pop up much sooner. Good old J-gate. And anything looks palatable topped with burled walnut.
How about the 7-speed automatic in the SL63 AMG? It's a planetary gearset auto but it has a wet-plate clutch instead of a torque converter.
The new (2007-current) Chevy Silverado's and Express' with the Duramax have a unique "PRNDM" setup with a rocker switch on the column shifter to shift manually.
RWD Volvos with Aisin-Warner three-speed-plus-overdrive automatics (AW70/71/72, with or without the lockup torque converter) had a pushbutton on the side of the shifter to disengage the overdrive. This is similar to downshifting when the car's travelling over about 30 MPH and there's no throttle input; rather than continuing to accelerate down a moderate grade, it'll roughly hold its speed (at least with my 244's misadjusted throttle cable; I haven't tried that trick in the 745 yet).
If that doesn't count enough, since the shifter display plate (that shows you what gear you're in) has a habit of popping loose in the 244, I sometimes flip it upside down – Park is 1, 1 is a lowercase D, and so forth in between. Two people have had trouble driving the car like that – one of them a police officer.
The air-cooled Borg-Warner Flash-O-Matic (that's a lot of hyphens, innit?) in many Ramblers up to the early seventies (including my '63 American) used this interesting pattern. The 2 and 1 on either side of the D indicated which gear it would start in with the lever in that position. Note the mileage…
<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5081691425_a7d0825e65.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="An Amusing Coincidence" />
What….no one remembers the Trabant P601 H with the Hycomat automated manual transmission? It was only sold in limited quantities to those with a disability who could prove to the state that they needed one. Still, it was sold from 1965 until 1990 when the two stroke Trabant was sadly replaced by the Trabant 1.1.
<img= "http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Trabant601K.jpg" >