Question of the Weekend: Could You Ever Own a Classic Italian or French Automobile?
I have been ever-so-busy looking up Craigslist Ads for the Hooniverse Craigslist postings that I thought I would ask if you could see your self owning a vintage French of Italian car. Yes we all dream of owning that classic Ferrari or Maserati, or Lamborghini, or to take it one step further, a Citroen SM. But how about locating and owning a Renault Dauphine, a Fiat 128, or a Lancia Beta? Would you ever take the plunge to own these continental beauties?
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- 1971 Citroën Décapotable – Yes, its very French, so its very Hooniversalustworthy!
Before you answer ask yourself, "How would my (wife, roommate, dog) feel about a garage that looks like this?"
<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_fVEg3I8ek1A/S4vhKlOSWzI/AAAAAAAAAC8/l6mEo8KSbX0/s640/2010-03-01%2008.32.30.jpg">
It would have to be pretty special (like an SM or Italian exotic) for me to consider it, plus more money and more room than I have. There are too many more reliable cars that would make nice daily drivers. For instance, a Miata would be pretty good compensation for an Alfa roadster. The Japanese car might not have the style that the Alfa has, but it's as least as good of a performer plus it will start every morning and keep running.
The voices in my head! They've gone viral! Begone, evil spirits!
Currently there are nine vintage French cars (Panhard, Matra, Deutsch-Bonnet) and one vintage Italian car (Moretti) in the garage. As a result, I would guess my answer is yes.
You should post some pictures, your garage sounds freaking awesome!
It is. Do a search on Jalop for "Junkman".
He also has/had a 356 which I would commit many crimes to own.
Someday, I'll figure out how to post pics. I may have to replace the hamsters in my computer first, though.
The question is actually "How long can I keep them from owning me?"
I'm Bart Simpsoning "I must get the business of the ground and have my own shop. I must get the business off the ground…
I bought a basket case Fiat 850 in college with the intention of restoring it. I missed my one good chance to restore it, or at least get a good start, the summer of my senior year in college. The weekend that school let out I went and twisted my knee and was out of commission for about 6 weeks. I remember when I first got it me and my Dad pushing it around and thinking that the small car sure was easy to move. I even told my Dad "Aren't you glad I didn't get a Cadillac". My next project car was a 1967 Imperial Convertible.
i finally realized I needed to downsize the fleet and tried to sell the car whole. No takers at even $300. I ended up parting it out for well over $1000 and donating the rolling shell to the church to use as a prop for vacation bible school. Eight guys can carry a Fiat 850 onto a stage with no problem.
All that being said, when I started dis-assembling the 850 I realized how easy it was to work on. I wouldn't mind finding a nice driver cheap. Or maybe an Alfa of some sort.
As for French cars, probably not. Maybe an Renault Dauphine, just because my Dad had one back in the 1960s when he was stationed in Germany.
I know it sounds like a cop-out, but on our current budget, I'm quite certain my wife would make me sleep in any non-running car I brought home until I could use it as a reliable daily driver. Were I to bring home something French or Italian, I fear that I would be without female company at bedtime for quite a while.
Yes and Yes – too many to name!
I already have a 2cv in the garage and yes, I have achieved a higher plane of existence because of it.
I didn't realize the 2cv had enough power to get up on a plane.
Dad has a Citroen DS sedan and wagon (manual and citromatic respectively), he learned to drive on a 2CV, myself on his 2 DSs. I wouldn't have it any way.
If I get rich and become an owner of expansive garage space, then oh yeah fersure.
Until then, nah. I hope to have a second car for a project car sooner than later, but right now it will either be a BMW 325is (e30 son) or a 91-93 Mustang LX (notchback dun).
I would probably buy an original Fiat 500, Citroen DS or 2CV, but other French and Italian cars leave me cold. I mean, I guess I could buy a Fiat 124, but I would honestly prefer a Lada 2101 to the Fiat original. It has Soviet grade awesome built in to mitigate the Italian quality control but it still retains the Italian styling. The more robust, third world nature of the Lada would make it easier to pull the trigger on one than the Fiat it was originally designed to be.
As for modern cars, I would probably consider a Fiat Panda if it were sold in the US, or perhaps a Renault Twingo or the Citroen C2 ( Toyota Aygo clone), but that's about it. There's nothing else that is small and practical enough to be worth considering.
I'd settle for a Vel Satis. Alas, they haven't quite depreciated vertically enough for me yet, though.
for around £2,000 you cant go too wrong, but they do have two, too many doors to be really cool!
In my current position in life owning any notable classic latin or gallic machinery would be a folly. To be frank, I wouldn't be able to lavish them with the attention they demand.
On the other hand, every couple of weeks I get chronic twinges and have to control myself when I see a cheap Alfa 166.
I'm surprised. I thought there were no second hand 166s.
The ones I've seen have all been extremely second hand.
Yes, Avantime FTW! I would absolutely love to have one. What is the current price range in the EU?
mine was £4,400 a year ago, with just 55,000 miles, and it was the top of the range model…
i have already informed the wife that we will never, ever sell it…
she agrees, i am happy
My wife loves them too and, now that we have garage space in Europe, owning one can be a reality. I know she'll prefer it over the Sportage.
I think owning one Italian car is easier than owning one French car, just because of the relative ease of finding parts and a mechanic who can work on it. But ask this guy, he's got dozens of French cars!
http://karakullake.blogspot.com/2010/06/super-fre…
http://karakullake.blogspot.com/2010/06/super-fre…
Absolument pas en toute circonstance. Non.
Non vorrei mai considerare questi un insensato cosa. Che tipo di assurdità è questa?
If and when money becomes no longer a concern in my life, then certainly.
But I still value my livelihood, being able to afford good food and nice clothes and friends. So that Citroen DS will have to wait.
As a daily driver? No, probably not. I'd think about an old Fiat 500 or Citroen 2CV since there's so little to go wrong, but I couldn't force Ontario's salty winter roads on either of them. Hell, I wouldn't want to take my chances standing near a Fiat with an open bag of salt and vinegar chips.
But as a toy, I'd definitely consider it, I suppose since if anything went wrong, I could let it sit in the garage until I could get it fixed.
Yep – my feelings exactly. I'd love something newer, even – a Milano or GTV6, possibly – but it'd be a summer car and a second car by default, and it'll be a long way in the future if it ever does happen.
My mother daily-drives a 1971 FIAT 500, and I occasionally drive it as well. It's fairly heavily modified to keep up with modern traffic- 126 engine, taller gearing and wider wheels, resulting in a top speed of 85 rather than the stock 59. I could certainly see owning a car like that. I have also lusted after hydropneumatic Citroens (DS or CX), but usually realised that it would be crazy to own one until I have a lot more money to look after it. ..
I don't think that would be wise.
Right now I have a precariously balanced garage consisting of 3 American Mopars and 3 British sportscars with an Italian designed Japanese sports sedan right in the middle. A sport-bike and a Sportster are at a stalemate, and a pair of one wheel trailers serve as impartial UN observers. The recent addition of the wife's French/German car has raised tensions in the region significantly. All it would take is one poorly timed DS bomb to spark driveway war III.
That said, an SM or Renault 5/ Le Car might be worth a invading the wife's parking territory.
<img src="http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/front_website/octane_interact/modelpicture.php?id=4867" width="500">
So high on my list. SO high.
Or:
<img src="http://img2.netcarshow.com/Renault-8_Gordini_1300_1967_1024x768_wallpaper_01.jpg" width="500">
Or:
<img src="http://lecruchon2.free.fr/1962_Panhard_PL17/1962_Panhard_PL17_9.jpg" width="500">
Or even better:
<img src="http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/385400/102_2292.jpg" width="500">
Come to Ohio; all kinds of HBR5s here!
<img src="http://www.oldtimergala.de/content/produktfotos/1186097162LanciaFulviaLeiKL_preview.jpg" width ="500">
A hydropneumatic Citroën certainly will be owned by me once I've got a garage, even if it's a single garage with a driveway. Besides, a DS or CX really isn't that unreliable. Sure, a contemporary Mercedes is more reliable, but with proper maintenance those large Citroëns are quite durable. Certainly daily driver worthy and dependable. Parts availability for the DS is huge, they're re-manufacturing a lot. Obviously this is only true for Europe, but with internet and a little patience it shouldn't be a problem to get them shipped to the US.
I saw an early XM on the road the other day in what looked like mint condition. I'm actually close to wanting one of those even more than a CX. So of it's time. So awesome.
Turkey is awash in Fiat 131s like that pictured in your post–sedans and wagons. There are even more of the next generation of that model developed here by TOFAS (local manufacturer). These are better constructed with somewhat nicer styling (or at least less brutal styling) and enormous trunks in the sedans. Which come in handy as most have been converted to LPG. They are driven maniacally, maintained erratically, most are at least 20 years old and half have spent their lives as taxis. And still they fly past you on the road with a nice Italian exhaust sound. So, if I came across one that wasn't tied together with baling wire and pinstriping tape, I'd have it. Contrary to commentariat 'wisdom' reliability and repairability don't seem to be an issue.
When I was in Italy, the folks there swore that their Fiats were rock solid reliable, too. Something must happen to them while being shipped across the Atlantic, when they arrived here (when you could still get one) they were nightmares. Fix It Again, Tony might be a cliche, but from what I've always heard, it's true. At least it is here in the States.
American cars have a bad reputation here, for being unreliable (among other things, like inefficiency, terrible interiors and poor handling). VW is huge here, partly due to their reliable reputation. Italian cars are only popular in the smaller segments. Although most people would still prefer a beige Italian car over an usually even beiger American car. The result is that German cars are everywhere, as are French and (to a lesser extent) Italian cars. American cars are rare, and depreciate like crazy.
To be clear: I count Opel and Euro-Ford as European brands.
In the past I've owned a Peugeot 505 and a Chrysler Alpine (aka Simca 1308) but they had to go under pressure from "the boss" to reduce the fleet. I do still have hankerings though for a 205 GTi and a Lancia Fulvia coupe, amongst others.
Well not everybody would consider it a classic, .I used to have a 80's Peugeot 505 Turbo and it was awesome. One of the best handling cars I've driven ( again not saying much ) After it was totalled I bought a W124 Mercedes 400E, but I still check craigslist for Peugeots. Of course I don't need another car but if I came into some money it would be on the list. or maybe a Citroen or Alfa?
I think a classic Fiat 500 is in my future. A 2CV might be a good alternative though… Now if Chrysler brings over the Panda, I might just have to buy one.
Yes I would, and have, and will again. But right now I'm too busy trying to keep my Russian classic alive!
<img src="http://forum.avtoindex.com/foto/data/media/29/Citroen_GS_X_1975_30.jpg" width=500>
Hell, I would own the Birotor. I don't know what it is about these, but I find them endearing.
<img src="http://automotivezen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/citroen_ami.jpg">
I just love this design. That rear window is why I love old French cars.
<img src="http://jurajos.blog.auto.cz/files/2008/10/lancia-gamma-coupe.jpg" width=500>
I'd even rock the sedan version.
That last one is a Lancia Gamma Coupe, an insane italian confection with a flat-four engine. I'd have one in a heartbeat if a) there were any left, and b) I wasn't likely to wake in the morning and find a pile of orange dust in my driveway.
I know, right? The Gamma Coupe is probably one of my favorite designs (although I'm not quite sure why). Such a shame that they were so very, very thin-skinned.
Citroen GS=happy in the pants!
Frranco-Italian Approved for Purchase List:
Fiat X1-9
The Alfa from that last post
Lamborghini Espada – if you're gonna go Italian, you might as well go all the way.
As my life currently sits, no.
In case of winning lottery ticket, the following are already on my shopping list:
<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3394/3570609310_38f8a37d29.jpg">
<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2687/4367560641_c99fd16dce.jpg">
<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/3959668100_421afe3f52.jpg">
I've met Graziela Fernandes in Interlagos once. She's amazing. She had a Ninja 900, was an off-shore racer, piloted her own Learjet. Last year she was in a classic rally and made the fastest lap after being 37 years away from Interlagos and GTAs.
<img src="http://www.nobresdogrid.com.br/site/images/stories/Nobres_do_Grid/Fotos_dos_Pilotos/Graziela_Fernandes/00320-20alfa-grazi-p.jpg"/>
Is she interested in adapting a middle-aged child?
Certainly. I love Italian cars. My definitino of "classic" might be a stretch. I currently daily drive an Alfa Milano, previously a Fiat X1/9, and am hot for a cheap Maserati Biturbo.
I'd love a Matra Bagheera or a Peugeot 505 Turbo.
I just turned 30, so my definition of classic isnt quite what others might be.
I sure would. In fact, a classic Alfa, Citroen, or something British, convertible, and similarly unreliable is destined for that third garage bay. I just need to let the kids age a bit so they can clear out all little-kid toys and make room.
I've owned two Ladas, which bolt for bolt would be a ripoff of a Fiat 124. Does that count?
I've owned an Alfa (74 gtv) Lovely car, mostly easy & simple to work on. Just don't buy one that's
lived in Houston as some college kid's DD. Lack of money to maintain/repair
Almost bought the personal SM of the owner of the last Citroen dealership in TX.
Lack of loan from the bank
Almost bought a 74 Fiat 2000 from a Delta pilot in McKinney. Lack of money from the
bank.
Kid's, if there's one thing I can impart, buy/drive whatever you want- but have cash in
hand first!